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| fury | hmm. so there were some people angry at tesla ever since they started shipping cars for alleged GPL violations / refusal to release applicable source code. i'm wondering two things, really... 1) what use would that source code be to the average joe? 2) how would one comply with such licenses in an AGL-based unit? | 01:15 |
|---|---|---|
| fury | and to elaborate on #1... i mean, it's not like they can edit that source code and recompile it and reflash their Tesla, unless Tesla also gave them binaries of their secret sauce to bake in... | 01:15 |
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| mranostay | fury: Apache 2 on most parts of AGL so not a issue | 02:06 |
| mranostay | <-- is not a lawyer :) | 02:06 |
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| fury | ah ok | 02:11 |
| fury | but is that idea even feasible, to enable a user to theoretically recompile from source (plus a blob of whatever proprietary stuff from the OEM) and reflash? | 02:12 |
| fury | or does that end when the build gets customized to the vehicle, only the OEM can ever possibly make a build? | 02:13 |
| fury | cause i think that'd be cool to release a head unit that the user can customize themselves | 02:13 |
| fury | dunno if it's practical at all (especially with regard to security of the system and whatnot) | 02:14 |
| smurray | fury: I suspect you'd need to talk to some of the architecture folks to see what their concept is for stuff like that wrt AGL | 02:21 |
| fury | makes sense | 02:21 |
| smurray | fury: I've been told the plan is to allow building w/o GPLv3, which means you could release source but disallow booting anything other than factory provided images | 02:22 |
| smurray | fury: but GPLv3 removal is more of a roadmap thing ATM | 02:23 |
| fury | cool | 02:23 |
| fury | yeah, this is all roadmap stuff for me too, just thinking ahead a bit (and maybe getting a bit ahead of myself :P) | 02:24 |
| smurray | fury: for a standalone d-i-y head-unit, allowing custom images might be okay, but IANAL so I don't know if there are unexpected liability concerns | 02:25 |
| fury | i'm starting to get a decent picture of what is the 70-80% vs. the 20-30%. and i think the 20-30% basically boils down to...your own custom branded home screen / apps / SmartDeviceLink implementation, custom board / BSP, and whatnot | 02:26 |
| fury | but i'm often wrong | 02:26 |
| fury | lot of stuff in that "whatnot" :P | 02:27 |
| smurray | heh, yep | 02:27 |
| fury | i'm not a lawyer either | 02:27 |
| fury | suppose at some point i should consult one...AGL is my first real foray into any open source project | 02:28 |
| fury | i've dabbled and cloned and built before, but this is the only one I've ever submitted a change for (even if it was small :P) | 02:28 |
| fury | and i love how welcoming and helpful it is :D | 02:29 |
| smurray | heh | 02:30 |
| smurray | wrt shipping requirements for source, I believe SFLC and FSF have some guidelines | 02:31 |
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| mranostay | fury: and under compliance doesn't mean the code has to be useful :).. although iirc GPLv2/3 has a must be a buildable as well :) | 02:36 |
| mranostay | don't recall flashable :) | 02:36 |
| fury | hmm. much to learn i still have :D | 02:38 |
| fury | i get lost in all the licensing lingo | 02:39 |
| fury | but that's not my forte anyway | 02:39 |
| mranostay | yeah i keep away from law things :) | 02:43 |
| fury | as a software guy i'm just like...treat people the way i like to be treated. i'm hoping to be able to contribute something major to AGL, dunno what it is yet, but i feel bad taking all this fantastic code pulled together by AGL and not having a lot to throw back in yet :P | 02:43 |
| fury | i dream big, i guess | 02:44 |
| fury | for sure if i get to writing the 7" homescreen/demo apps first, i'll toss that in :D | 02:49 |
| fury | 1080x1920 portrait squished down to that raspbery pi dsplay is painful | 02:49 |
| fury | i think after fiddling with the radio app i'm at least 33% confident i could do such a thing (modify everything to fit 7" landscape 800x480 or whatever size that display is) | 02:50 |
| fury | played around with qml a lot at work the last few weeks, that helps too | 02:50 |
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| leon-anavi | morning | 05:03 |
| mranostay | leon-anavi: not morning in the center of the universe, sir :) | 05:04 |
| leon-anavi | heh :) | 05:07 |
| leon-anavi | it's 8am on my side of the universe ;) | 05:07 |
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| [AD]Turbo | ciao all | 07:37 |
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| akilaw | hi all | 10:40 |
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| mdp | gah, I *hate* that timeout on the binary blob m2 porter gfx driver. | 17:55 |
| fury | yuuuuuuuuuuuup | 17:56 |
| mdp | such a POS | 17:56 |
| mranostay | hehe | 17:57 |
| mranostay | mdp: it would nicer if gave an actual warning than just oopsing | 17:57 |
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| mdp | mranostay: it's more fun to imagine the new-to-porter users freaking out encountering that. | 18:06 |
| mranostay | mdp: heh i had no clue what the hell was happening at first :) | 18:06 |
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| rZr | akila_w, maybe you can explain on wiki how to use https://at.projects.genivi.org/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=14976597 | 18:33 |
| rZr | + zebkit | 18:34 |
| akila_w | sure rZr | 18:34 |
| akila_w | You mean running a sampleapp right | 18:34 |
| rZr | yes | 18:34 |
| rZr | sell your tech ;) | 18:34 |
| akila_w | Sure rZr :-) | 18:49 |
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| mdp | fury, I think you were on the call, but I've got fixes now to address the telephony audio breakage caused by audiomanager. In SPEC-660 and also about to push one for SPEC-710. I think you mentioned running into this sometime back. | 19:04 |
| fury | sweet. so it doesn't automatically mute everything? | 19:04 |
| mdp | right | 19:04 |
| fury | woo :D | 19:04 |
| mdp | the muting was due to an assert and crash and the entire db state being a bit confused..that was a race condition (pending upstream in module-router) | 19:05 |
| mdp | and then once that's in place I noticed that despite module-router/AM being enabled, for some reason the demo config has left module-role-cork enabled which was fighting with module-router over corking state of certain streams | 19:06 |
| mdp | can't have two policy managers fighting ;) | 19:06 |
| mdp | so easier fix there | 19:06 |
| fury | sounds good | 19:07 |
| fury | hehe "sounds" | 19:07 |
| fury | i just built an app with the SDK! i wonder if it installs and runs and shows stuff on screen... | 19:07 |
| mdp | so if you apply spec-660's fix..you'll find the streams are no longer muted..but the phone sink input and source output gets fiddled back to a corked state by the upstream corking module. | 19:07 |
| fury | ah | 19:07 |
| mdp | anyway, you can cherry pick those in or wait for it to go upstream if you aren't in a hurry. | 19:07 |
| fury | no worries - I am cool with manually pausing for now. I wish I could figure out why Weston doesn’t start sometimes, that’s about half the time I have to reboot and reboot and reboot to get it to come up | 19:09 |
| fury | ooh | 19:11 |
| fury | eeh | 19:11 |
| fury | it almost starts but libQt5SerialPort.so.5 not found | 19:11 |
| fury | guess i need to add a library somehow | 19:11 |
| fury | is that a thing i can add to the image_install_append or do i need to dive deeper? | 19:16 |
| fury | bitbake qtserialport | 19:17 |
| fury | ezpz :D | 19:17 |
| mdp | you should make a tty binding for agl ;) | 19:18 |
| fury | yes, that'd be even better | 19:18 |
| fury | one step at a time tho :D want to try and get it running and showing something on the screen, THEN write it the right way :P | 19:18 |
| mdp | +1 | 19:18 |
| fury | cause thus far i have not been able to write something and compile it and have it come up on screen and show something | 19:19 |
| fury | i've had blank icon spaces come up, and i've tapped them and seen blank screens, but nothing showing my QML UI | 19:19 |
| smurray | fury: you might want to ask on the mailing list how you'd handle something like that library in a standalone app, I could imagine needing to bundle it somehow | 19:20 |
| fury | yeah | 19:21 |
| fury | sigh, installed the library, app runs, and even reads the QML file but again, nothing on screen | 19:21 |
| fury | wish i knew what i was doing wrong :D | 19:21 |
| fury | do i have to do something special in the qt app to tell it "hey AGL window manager, show me on the screen" or sometihng? | 19:22 |
| mdp | fury, there's definitely interaction where the layer manager must be told to display the surface your app is drawing upon. | 19:27 |
| fury | hmm | 19:28 |
| fury | is that supposed to be happening in the app itself, or do i have to edit the home screen to tell it to do that? | 19:28 |
| mdp | fury, outside of it just working with the demo apps I can't really offer more there..however, I've debugged around that area before and watched the ilm protocol and dumped the state of the surfaces | 19:28 |
| mdp | fury, in the scope of the demo hmi and homescreen, the homescreen does control that. | 19:29 |
| fury | https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/fJBVcU9P/ | 19:30 |
| fury | sounds like it | 19:30 |
| fury | ok, that makes sense now, so homescreen has to make a layer in windowmanager for it | 19:31 |
| mdp | yeah, so take a look at your app's journal log at startup..you'll see what surface and layer is assigned | 19:31 |
| mdp | and you can see the full state using the LayerManagerControl command. | 19:32 |
| fury | i don't see anything in the journal assigning it a surface/layer | 19:34 |
| fury | oh wait | 19:35 |
| fury | that was the first launch that failed | 19:35 |
| fury | ooh | 19:36 |
| fury | ooh | 19:36 |
| fury | i killed it and restarted it | 19:36 |
| fury | and it shows | 19:37 |
| fury | holy shit | 19:37 |
| mdp | fury, so keep in mind that they way this is organized, in this 1080p portrait mode..your layers are managed such that only that center portion is visible and homescreen's top and bottom "strip" is always visible. | 19:37 |
| mdp | fury, cool. | 19:37 |
| mdp | fury, you can run LayerManagerControl get [surfaces|layers|screens] to see what's been allocated so far and the ids..and you can use the tool to manually fiddle with exposing/adjusting location | 19:39 |
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| fury | yeah | 19:49 |
| fury | i killed it, got some warnings, started it back up again and now it shows up | 19:50 |
| fury | tho it has a titlebar | 19:50 |
| fury | weird | 19:50 |
| fury | awesome | 19:50 |
| fury | and now i have to rebuild the kernel to turn on the driver for this usb to serial port that i need to talk to the thing i want to talk to | 19:50 |
| fury | can i just rebuild the kernel alone and drop it in place on /boot or are there multiple files that change when the kernel changes? | 19:52 |
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| fury | i am super excited and super sad that i have to head home in an hour | 19:53 |
| fury | super excited cause i got stuff showing up on screen finally :D | 19:54 |
| smurray | fury: there's module packages | 19:55 |
| fury | oh ok | 19:55 |
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| fury | the config has it not set, do i need to set it as m and then make the module and then drop the module in /lib/modules somewhere, or when i make it m i also have to replace the kernel image itself? | 19:57 |
| fury | oh, kernel-modules-* | 19:58 |
| fury | cool | 19:58 |
| smurray | fury: I don't believe the images have package management enabled. I typically just re-install to test changes like that | 19:59 |
| fury | ok | 19:59 |
| fury | sounds good | 19:59 |
| fury | i need to get back to a known clean state on that thing anyway, i dun fiddled around with a bunch of .conf settings and whatnot | 19:59 |
| smurray | you could try the sota stuff, but I'm not sure how robust it is atm | 19:59 |
| fury | so i'd add IMAGE_INSTALL_append = " kernel-modules" or something like that? | 20:00 |
| smurray | I believe it's already picking up that up. You'll need to tweak the appropriate kernel recipe append to add a new config fragment that enables the module | 20:01 |
| fury | oh ok | 20:01 |
| fury | sounds good | 20:01 |
| fury | i think i remember how to do that | 20:01 |
| smurray | fury: as an e.g., look at the stuff in meta-agl-bsp/meta-renesas/recipes-kernel/linux/ | 20:02 |
| smurray | fury: in meta-agl | 20:02 |
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| fury | yep, started heading that way | 20:02 |
| fury | would i put my recipes in a separate directory or add them to one of the existing appends? | 20:03 |
| smurray | probably just add a new .cfg and add it to the list in the existing append(s) | 20:03 |
| fury | ok | 20:03 |
| fury | sounds good | 20:04 |
| smurray | I'm guessing the intent would be to maybe do that in a custom layer for a real product | 20:04 |
| smurray | but if it's something that could be useful upstream, you could do it right in meta-agl | 20:04 |
| fury | yeah. i like serial ports, they make it easy to talk to some things, dunno how much anyone else likes them but yeah :P | 20:05 |
| fury | we have a little board that translates from serial port on a PC to can messages for some of our old devices | 20:07 |
| smurray | gotcha | 20:08 |
| fury | figured i could just do that instead of buying an expensive USB2CAN until i actually need other CAN messages | 20:08 |
| fury | cause the cheap one ($65) is out of stock | 20:08 |
| smurray | seeed were advertising a $25 one last week, but afaict it looks like windows driver only | 20:09 |
| fury | yeah, i could hop on amazon and search and find 20 different ones that are like $25, but questionable on whether it actually works on linux | 20:10 |
| fury | i figure stick with the ones in mainline | 20:10 |
| fury | 8devices usb2can is the cheapest one i found that fits that bill | 20:10 |
| fury | and i guess it's super popular | 20:10 |
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| fury | yeesh | 20:29 |
| fury | taking like 6 or 7 minutes just to redo the rootfs after compiling the kernel | 20:30 |
| mranostay | fury: get a SSD :) | 20:32 |
| fury | it's an NVMe, i think | 20:32 |
| fury | though i ordered it through dell's configurator, so dunno how fast it really is | 20:33 |
| fury | i doubt they'd have picked from the top of the line | 20:33 |
| fury | and then this SD card, even the Samsung EVO only like 10-20 megs a second | 20:34 |
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| fury | hmm | 21:46 |
| fury | is there a thingy that can open a serial port? | 21:46 |
| fury | like picocom or minicom | 21:46 |
| fury | or some other thing that can test whether it can open and send data and get data back from that USB to serial i plugged in? | 21:46 |
| fury | cause this thing is just failing silently | 21:47 |
| fury | doesn't tell me anything | 21:47 |
| smurray | screen, maybe, not sure it's in the images | 21:47 |
| fury | i chmodded /dev/ttyUSB0 to 0666 | 21:47 |
| fury | got screen | 21:47 |
| fury | wonder if that works | 21:47 |
| fury | ugh | 21:51 |
| fury | either the keyspan driver is broke, or this keyspan is broke | 21:51 |
| fury | hmm | 21:52 |
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| fury | different keyspan does the same thing | 22:00 |
| fury | so i hook up screen to /dev/ttyUSB0 and i got a little paperclip wired from tx to rx so i can see what it thinks i'm sending | 22:00 |
| fury | and i type like qwertyuiop and it'll spit out hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh | 22:00 |
| fury | and if i hold a key long enough it'll start displaying that key | 22:01 |
| waltminer | khilman just wondering if you retried the room reservation for San Jose. Do I need to follow up with hotel? | 22:01 |
| smurray | waltminer: there were no rooms for the 12th when I tried booking yesterday, any chance that's changed? | 22:02 |
| smurray | waltminer: when I called, the lady told me no rooms left in the hotel at all on the 12th | 22:03 |
| waltminer | oh really? | 22:03 |
| waltminer | let me check | 22:03 |
| smurray | I ended up booking the other nights there, and the 12th somewhere nearby | 22:04 |
| waltminer | I know that our block sold out for the 12th, but they told us yesterday we could add more rooms to the block so it did not sound like they are sold out completely. | 22:07 |
| waltminer | Amy is calling the head honcho | 22:08 |
| smurray | waltminer: okay, if you do manage to get more rooms for the 12th please let me know | 22:11 |
| waltminer | Will do | 22:11 |
| khilman | waltminer: I had same results as smurray. No rooms on the 12th. | 22:18 |
| waltminer | ok | 22:20 |
| smurray | khilman: I booked at the Hilton around the corner for the 12th since it was close, but it's $$ | 22:26 |
| khilman | smurray: thx, I'll do the same. | 22:29 |
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| waltminer | khilman and smurray I will ask them to extend your stays one night when they add the rooms to the block | 22:54 |
| waltminer | I’ll let you know what I hear | 22:54 |
| khilman | waltminer: ok, thx | 22:55 |
| smurray | waltminer: okay, thanks in advance | 22:58 |
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| fury | it doesn't even pick up the edgeport usb to serial O_o what the dealio | 23:13 |
| fury | i am so close to getting this thing to do something cool and i can't even get a working serial port lol | 23:13 |
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| fury | argh | 23:21 |
| fury | it's whatever driver is included with the renesas kernel i guess | 23:21 |
| fury | the keyspan works fine on my ubuntu machine | 23:21 |
| smurray | yeah, the porter is a bit old | 23:23 |
| smurray | kernel, I mean | 23:24 |
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| fury | time for me to retire it i guess :D | 23:43 |
| fury | but the pi's graphics are a bit slower :( | 23:43 |
| fury | like, even the sliding in of the icons from the home screen is sluggish on the pi compared to the porter | 23:44 |
| fury | i guess that's what you get for having a $300 computer instead of a $35 one | 23:44 |
| fury | but still, i woulda thought the pi's got plenty of GPU power to do simple animations like that | 23:44 |
| fury | i mean, it can play quake 3 :P | 23:46 |
| mranostay | fury: it is more the memory constraints with the shared RAM with the GPU | 23:47 |
| fury | oh yeah | 23:47 |
| fury | forgot about that | 23:47 |
| LoveMHz | funny how shared memory archs can actually be faster that way | 23:47 |
| fury | that's gonna be fun too, having to remember not to open too many apps or it'll crash | 23:47 |
| mranostay | LoveMHz: not when you only have 1G of RAM :) | 23:48 |
| fury | is there another little board like the pi that doesn't have all these little gotchas like crappy bluetooth and whatnot? :P | 23:48 |
| fury | that runs on AGL* | 23:48 |
| LoveMHz | Original Xbox, 64MBs of shared RAM. | 23:48 |
| fury | woo xbox 1 | 23:48 |
| fury | wonder how that geforce 3 compares to the pi's videocore 4 | 23:49 |
| LoveMHz | no idea. really it comes down to dev tricks and I'm not aware of a PI demoscene. | 23:51 |
| fury | i wonder, why does agl have to compile qtwebkit? is there a browser hidden in there somewhere or is it just for a prospective app that wants to browse the web? | 23:51 |
| fury | here in about 10-20 years we'll see a pi demo scene | 23:52 |
| fury | since we see a lot of C64s within the last 10-15 years | 23:52 |
| mranostay | heh well you couldn't run a modern linux on 64mb of ram :) | 23:52 |
| fury | i bet you someone's hackjobbed linux into that xbox | 23:53 |
| mranostay | there is a reason a lot of openwrt targets are using ancient kernels :) | 23:53 |
| fury | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_Linux | 23:53 |
| fury | "was" | 23:53 |
| fury | yep, damn small linux and whatnot | 23:54 |
| fury | wonder how long ago that was | 23:54 |
| mranostay | heh 2.4.27 | 23:54 |
| JEEB | xbox was pretty close to standard PC, even more than PS4 | 23:54 |
| fury | well, almost as new as the kernel in the Tesla Model S! | 23:55 |
| JEEB | just had very little RAM | 23:55 |
| JEEB | although it had more than the PSP which I ran uclinux on for a wee bit | 23:55 |
| fury | i hear they're about to push out 4.4 tho | 23:55 |
| smurray | fury: there's not really a slam dunk winner for best AGL dev board imo, they all have tradeoffs | 23:55 |
| fury | makes sense | 23:55 |
| fury | i should just get one of each | 23:55 |
| fury | jacinto 6 $2500 ouch...or not | 23:55 |
| JEEB | sounds like enterprise | 23:56 |
| smurray | the new quad minnowboard might be reasonable. I find the the turbot a bit slow, but it has decent open graphics drivers | 23:56 |
| fury | sweet | 23:56 |
| fury | i love the idea of open graphics drivers | 23:56 |
| fury | reeeeeal tired of rebooting after 3 hours | 23:57 |
| JEEB | yea, it helps to have open drivers since they can actually be debugged or improved :) | 23:57 |
| JEEB | binary dumps generally just... are there | 23:57 |
| JEEB | not that OSS drivers automagically mean that everything's rosy of course | 23:57 |
| fury | yeah | 23:57 |
| fury | but if you're so inclined, you can literally look at the code and fix it yourself | 23:57 |
| fury | novel thought | 23:57 |
| smurray | I should try getting current AGL booting on a db410c and see how it works these days, the Linaro folks have apparently improved the BSP | 23:58 |
| waltminer | every 3 hours, that is a caffeination opportunity | 23:58 |
| smurray | but it has hassles like the odd power supply and 1.8v 2 mm headers, etc. | 23:58 |
| LoveMHz | It's actually crazy how close the Xbox was to a PC. The board layout is almost identical to a NVidia reference design, that later was manufactured by some companies such as Asus ;) | 23:59 |
| fury | hehe i tend to avoid caffeine tho :P i'd definitely find an excuse to get up and go take a break, in fact i do that every chance i get | 23:59 |
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