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| jbocklage123 | morning | 08:37 |
|---|---|---|
| toscalix | morning | 08:43 |
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| toscalix | working towards declaring gold master | 10:01 |
| toscalix | release day will be Oct 6th | 10:01 |
| toscalix | for GDP 11 | 10:01 |
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| toscalix | GDP 11 roadmap: https://at.projects.genivi.org/wiki/display/GDP/GDP+Roadmap | 10:31 |
| tardyp | toscalix: dumb question: where is GDP 10? | 11:10 |
| jbocklage123 | are there any Qt guys around here? | 11:50 |
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| toscalix | tardyp: we did not released it | 11:59 |
| toscalix | we are jumping from GDP 9 to 11 | 12:00 |
| toscalix | the numbers follow the meta-ivi numbering schema | 12:00 |
| jbocklage123 | is philiippe covale here? | 12:00 |
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| CTtpollard | jbocklage123: I presume you're looking for RzR :) | 12:21 |
| jbocklage123 | yes. I already got in contact. Thx! | 12:21 |
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| CTtpollard | cool! | 12:26 |
| toscalix | Rant: you cannot ship anything serious if you do not control the source code and the repositories. Period. | 12:42 |
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| paulsherwood | toscalix: i agree, but what's the context of your rant? :) | 13:15 |
| gunnarx | rant? | 13:16 |
| * gunnarx resisting reading the logs because he has more important things to solve | 13:17 | |
| toscalix | paulsherwood: when you are under pressure in the release process the more you control the code and the repos the more efficient you become. | 13:23 |
| toscalix | less risk | 13:23 |
| toscalix | and managing product/project releases is a lot controlling risks | 13:24 |
| paulsherwood | again i agree. pity others don't concur | 13:24 |
| toscalix | a lot about.... | 13:24 |
| toscalix | controlling the repos and code has a cost and it is high, but if you are serious about shipping, it is worth paying | 13:25 |
| toscalix | I understand the benefits are not easy to sell. | 13:26 |
| toscalix | I will decicate a few minutes in my talk at GENIVI AMM to this topic | 13:26 |
| pedroalvarez | paulsherwood: I believe the context is that some release builds are failing to fetch some source code | 13:30 |
| * pedroalvarez hugs git.baserock.org | 13:31 | |
| * paulsherwood finally can't resist saying 'GENIVI, i told you so, in 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016' | 13:31 | |
| rjek | hahaha | 13:32 |
| rjek | Is the source that cannot be fetched GPLed? Double fail if so | 13:33 |
| CTtpollard | fuse | 13:35 |
| rjek | Well, libfuse is under GPLv2, meaning commericial enterprises are *obliged* to keep their own copy of the sources | 13:36 |
| toscalix | we have different issues related with this in every release. It is just that with amount of software we are talking about in GDP 11, the cost is too high | 13:47 |
| toscalix | so the strategy needs to change | 13:47 |
| toscalix | rjek: we do | 13:47 |
| toscalix | https://at.projects.genivi.org/wiki/display/GDP/GDP+Download+Page | 13:48 |
| toscalix | and genivi keeps a copy of what we produce | 13:48 |
| toscalix | and develop | 13:48 |
| toscalix | the point is about how we manage the upstream code | 13:49 |
| gunnarx | and the point is? | 13:49 |
| toscalix | that with the amount of software we deal with and the pressure that a release brings, we need to adopt a corporate strategy in this regard. | 13:50 |
| gunnarx | you're just speaking in general terms | 13:51 |
| gunnarx | no one would ever disagree with "needing to adopt a strategy" | 13:51 |
| toscalix | so when the delivery team is doing intensive work, we become independent of "source code/repos issues" from third parties | 13:51 |
| gunnarx | paulsherwood does similar - claims that people do not concur, when in fact they do concur | 13:51 |
| paulsherwood | hah | 13:52 |
| gunnarx | OK, so there's a dead URL somewhere? | 13:52 |
| toscalix | this measure would bring also benefits at other stages although, again, there is a cost to pay, like always | 13:52 |
| gunnarx | that's why you're all up in arms? :-) | 13:53 |
| toscalix | no no gunnarx I am not mentioning any specific issue. In every release there is more than one. | 13:53 |
| gunnarx | yes, I am sure. I'm just looking for some willingness to solve problems instead of whine | 13:53 |
| toscalix | And at the point where we are in today, for instance, each problem might mean hours | 13:53 |
| gunnarx | so you will be a day late | 13:54 |
| gunnarx | the world won't end | 13:54 |
| toscalix | it might be that I come from a different environment but this is a point about Yocto that I really question when delivering projects/products using it | 13:54 |
| gunnarx | I am much more concerned with if we have the right content than meeting an exact deadline. Didn't you add an extra week of "space" in the timeplan exactly because there might be unexpected issues? | 13:55 |
| gunnarx | toscalix, it's not inherent to yocto. You can cache sources locally, or on a server. No problem. | 13:55 |
| toscalix | gunnarx: no, the extra week is just for marketing issues. We will have the images ready next week | 13:55 |
| toscalix | so we are working to have Gold MAster declared today | 13:56 |
| gunnarx | yeah, I have no understanding whatsoever why marketing can't work in parallel with the final QA processes, but maybe I just don't get it. | 13:56 |
| toscalix | gunnarx: but to declare gold master the right thing to do is clean builds | 13:56 |
| gunnarx | yes. | 13:57 |
| toscalix | I think it is a consequence of the success of the project. MArketing, compared to the previous release, GDP-ivi9, wants to do more so they need more time. | 13:57 |
| gunnarx | don't know what to say here really | 13:57 |
| toscalix | I found that a fair request | 13:57 |
| gunnarx | Of course, but nothing stopping them to get started, in my opinion :) | 13:57 |
| toscalix | they have started already | 13:58 |
| gunnarx | all good then | 13:58 |
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| toscalix | I think that in the marketing area this release will see an improvement compared to the previous one | 14:02 |
| toscalix | more effort, better planning... so probably higher impact | 14:03 |
| paulsherwood | gunnarx: i don't believe building systems from a wide selection of intertet urls is good way to work. you and others are clearly ok with it, and hence are ok with these problems. we do not concur on this | 14:13 |
| gunnarx | paulsherwood, again you are creating a giant strawman | 14:14 |
| paulsherwood | gunnarx: nope, i'm not. | 14:14 |
| gunnarx | very dishonest, to claim what I am OK with which is precisely not my opinion | 14:14 |
| paulsherwood | accusing me of dishonesty is a red flag, i'm afraid | 14:15 |
| gunnarx | Don't claim to know what "I am OK with" | 14:15 |
| gunnarx | That is dishonest to say the least | 14:15 |
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| gunnarx | good riddance | 14:16 |
| rjek | https://irclogs.baserock.org/automotive/%23automotive.2016-09-22.log.html but it hasn't reached there yet | 14:18 |
| gunnarx | rjek: ? | 14:18 |
| rjek | That excitement | 14:19 |
| rjek | I wanted to keep it for posterity | 14:19 |
| gunnarx | ah, well it's there, don't worry | 14:19 |
| gunnarx | while I have you on the line... what was the comment about keeping sources - GDP related? | 14:20 |
| rjek | Any project related | 14:20 |
| gunnarx | right, but you know that sources are delivered with GDP right? | 14:21 |
| * rjek likes to build his own stuff from his own mirrors of sources as it means you /know/ that's what you're distributing and what you have to keep should anyone ask for it | 14:21 | |
| rjek | But I know lots of people don't share that view | 14:21 |
| gunnarx | which people? maybe we can change their minds | 14:21 |
| rjek | In plenty of situations what companies have done is kept a copy of the release .tar.gz or whatever, and distribute that. But what is actually shipped in the binary is subtly patched somehow | 14:21 |
| gunnarx | well, as far as I know Yocto packages the actual sources that were built | 14:22 |
| gunnarx | we're relying on that... I mean any build system would. What other sources might there be than those that were compiled? | 14:23 |
| rjek | So you never patch anything in your recipes? | 14:25 |
| gunnarx | who, me personally? | 14:25 |
| gunnarx | the GDP project? | 14:25 |
| rjek | Not you personally, just in general | 14:26 |
| CTtpollard | We also ship all patches | 14:26 |
| rjek | I've seen loads of Yocto stuff patch things in the recipes, which are then easily accidentally not shipped to people requesting source | 14:26 |
| gunnarx | I don't know what you and paulsherwood think, but I don't know anyone who recommends downloading tarballs _at a later time_ from some random place and claim that those are corresponding sources. | 14:26 |
| rjek | (Or the wrong ones shipped) | 14:26 |
| gunnarx | Or to take unpatched sources and claim the same | 14:26 |
| gunnarx | Look, there's no issue about git being the best place to store sources. | 14:27 |
| * rjek hasn't mentioned git at all :) | 14:27 | |
| gunnarx | The reason I get so upset with paulsherwood is he's happy to imply that I am some kind of defender of tarballs downloaded off the internet. | 14:27 |
| rjek | I would argue against git in several situations | 14:27 |
| gunnarx | fair enough | 14:27 |
| gunnarx | I don't even like Yocto, don't you guys know that!? | 14:28 |
| gunnarx | :) | 14:28 |
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