IRC logs for #automotive for Monday, 2016-02-15

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gwwHello, can I get some help about Yocto GENIVI baseline building for R-CAR-M2-PORTER-A? Thank you.06:59
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kanupatarhi all, gm07:12
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chbaehi07:31
kanupatarchbae: hello07:41
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CTtpollardmorning08:24
chbaeCTtpollard08:29
chbae: hi08:29
chbaeI created in https://at.projects.genivi.org/jira/browse/GDP-8208:30
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CTtpollardchbae: cool :)08:42
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CTtpollardchbae: like I say, I'm trying to adapt amir's work https://github.com/amirna2/genivi-manifest into a branch, now that meta-ivi9 is supported so a lot of the hacks aren't needed08:43
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CTtpollardchbae: so a place to start could be building that with google 'repo'08:57
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chbaeCTtpollard: ok. then you don't have any extra work based on https://github.com/amirna2/genivi-manifest. right?08:59
CTtpollardchbae: I'll try and push a 'dev' branch for it today09:02
CTtpollardchbae: the past week was release week for GDP, so I've not had time to tidy it up :)09:03
chbaeCTtpollard: NP. I'll create and work my repository in github.09:04
chbaeCTtpollard: So. I'll change repo tool to gdp submodule in my github or if you give me the gdp access, then I can create the branch for rpi2 work.09:05
CTtpollardchbae: I'm just commiting somethings now09:12
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chbaeCTtpollard: Then I'll fork the repo's branch to my github and work it.09:15
chbaeCTtpollard: what is target version for RPI2? ivi9 or ivi9-beta?09:16
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sukeshHi, how to connect ssh or enter shell genivi demo platform in raspberry pi board?09:27
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CTtpollardchbae: http://git.projects.genivi.org/?p=genivi-demo-platform.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/tompollard/raspi909:29
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chbaesukesh: I didn't check it but finally ssh connection will be supported.09:30
CTtpollardchbae: you will need to apply this patch to the meta-raspberry pi repo http://paste.baserock.org/wumugibeji09:30
chbaeCTtpollard: Ok. I'll check it. Then how can I work for it. Should I send patches to you?09:32
gunnarxchbae, the maintainers can decide but normally people fork and work on stuff until "it works", then the process is to submit change request to genivi-projects so that maintainers can merge.09:32
gunnarxIf you want write access to the actual GENIVI git repo you need to earn it ;-)09:32
CTtpollardchbae: Like I say, I've just been trying when I can to bring in amir's work, I've managed to build and deploy, but the vc4 driver is missing off the rootfs so the weston drm-backend support fails09:32
gunnarx(but as I said the maintainer can decide who he wants to bring in of course)09:32
CTtpollardgithub is fine for me09:33
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gunnarxyes using some other service outside of GENIVI for your personal fork is the defacto process today09:33
chbaeCTtpollard: I'll fork the repo and work in my github.09:34
gunnarxI think we may want to change and improve that but we many open topics at the moment09:34
gunnarxso it will take a while longer...09:34
chbaegunnarx: So gerrit is good option to work it :) I know that GENIVI is working for it.09:34
gunnarxYes, gerrit provides two things.  One is of course the patch review process.09:35
gunnarxThe other is that it is basically a git repository server in itself.09:35
CTtpollardchbae: yeh any changes you make from the branch I just pushed into your own github fork of it will be fine09:35
gunnarxThe rate of creation of new repositories is manageable with git.projects.genivi.org - which I think is using gitolite or some simple management like that.09:36
chbaeCTtpollard: Ok. thanks.09:36
CTtpollardyup, git.genivi is gitolite09:38
gunnarxIf we want to host personal forks and stuff that needs something a little diferent.  As I said, this discussion is ongoing but not at the very top of my priority (but anyone else may keep preparing  it of course).  The current working process is "acceptable" in my opinion and we focus on providing software, specifications, etc. as highest priority.09:38
CTtpollardchbae: if it fails to build ping me, I could well have missed something from the commit09:38
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chbaeCTtpollard: Ok. Now I'm building09:42
CTtpollardfor instance, the weston.service needs --backend=drm-backend.so added to the exec09:43
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CTtpollardI think amir unstreamed that in his fork, it will need to be added as a specifc machine append in meta-genivi-demo, for now I just modify it manually09:44
gunnarxHi gmacario09:44
chbaeCTtpollard: Could you list up in https://at.projects.genivi.org/jira/browse/GDP-82 what should we do for RPI2? and about test case.09:45
sukeshchbae, some how it enter the shell .. now able to do ssh.. but i want to know how i can enter shell to knw IP..09:45
sukesh*it09:46
chbaesukesh: Ah. if you are using AP, then you can see the ip lists in AP. or you need to use serial cable.09:47
chbaesukesh: one of option is to use port scanner :)09:47
sukeshwhat is AP?09:47
CTtpollardsukesh: if you're in the shell, run ifconfig and ssh to the IP it provides?09:47
sukeshokay .. i never used port scanner .. i will try it09:48
sukeshCTtpollard, yes am able to do it .. but ip can change right? so that time how to connect shell again09:50
CTtpollardsukesh: if you don't have dhcp capability, then like chbae suggests maybe using a serial cable would prove helpful09:51
sukeshokay then I think, I need to buy serial cable09:52
chbaesukesh: Yes. that's good :)09:52
sukeshchbae, CTtpollard : do u have any idea on audio driver? I don't see any audio driver installed..09:53
CTtpollardsukesh: gdp uses ALSA and pulseaudio09:53
sukeshCTtpollard, yeah i seen those .. but ALSA driver is not enabled09:57
gunnarxsorry if I missed the history but which hardware are you working on now sukesh?10:00
sukeshraspberry pi 210:00
gunnarxok, same as chbae10:00
chbaeCTtpollard:  I got the fetch error in linux-raspberrypi (kernel). It may point out wrong commit.10:01
chbaeCTtpollard: ERROR: Fetcher failure: Unable to find revision 07009cab090ade3dd180e8a55d590b1a00072eed in branch vc4-kms-v3d-rpi2 even from upstream10:01
CTtpollardchbae: yeh I liked you a patch for this: http://paste.baserock.org/wumugibeji10:02
CTtpollard*linked10:02
CTtpollardswitched the url to a mirror of the commit10:02
chbaeCTtpollard: Ok. I'll do it in my branch. :)10:03
chbaeCTtpollard: I thought it's not good approach to touch upstream repo. All changes are reflected in new meta-layer like meta-genivi-demo. Then we can easily upgrade later.10:05
CTtpollardchbae: yes, if we can't get upstream repo's to accept the changes, we have to carry them in meta-genivi-demo10:05
CTtpollardmeta-raspberrypi is a tricky one, as the one amir uses is a fork, of a fork by Tizen10:06
chbaeCTtpollard: just my opinion and our product is working for it. Ok. All change will be reflected in meta-genivi-demo in my work.10:06
chbaeCTtpollard: with raspberrypi2 OVERRIDES. :)10:06
CTtpollardcool, but like I say where possible we should try and get changes upstreamed to layers, unless the change is for gdp specifically10:07
CTtpollardbut fixes like changing url's of dead repos should be upstreamable10:07
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chbaeCTtpollard: at first, we need to apply in meta-genivi-demo with bbappend and we can contribute to meta-raspberrypi.10:08
CTtpollardchbae: +110:09
chbaeCTtpollard :) I'll go to my home :) bye see you. I'll be back.10:10
CTtpollardalso if you think there's a more suitable repo to use for meta-raspberrypi to use then go for it, I'm sure Tizen would like the support10:10
chbaeCTtpollard: Ok. I'll check it and suggest if I have good idea.10:11
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sukesh_CTtpollard, if you do ctl + alt + F3 in application app, terminal is coming.. I dont knw this is some kinda hack :) Now i can connect ssh all d time10:36
CTtpollardsukesh_: well, it's a shortcut to bring up a virtual terminal10:39
CTtpollard:)10:39
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sukesh_oh i see.. that helped :)11:03
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sukeshHi, any one knows how to enable audio driver in genivi raspberry pi?11:46
CTtpollardsukesh: there is no 'official' build for raspi gdp yet, audio could well be broken on the google repo you are using11:47
sukeshCTtpollard, yep it is broken... can I get some help setup it?11:50
CTtpollardsukesh: if you can produce some log output, and share it with pastebins that would be great11:51
CTtpollardbut I'm not the maintainer of the repo you will have used11:51
sukeshI can do that.. but driver itself not listing.. first we need to bringup driver11:52
sukeshI get this : "aplay: device_list:268: no soundcards found..." when i try to list audio cards11:54
sukeshwe need to change somewhere in meta layer to bringup audio cards..11:55
sukeshI have seen alsa modules are building.. is there anything like kernel image flashing?11:56
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gunnarxsukesh: Two ideas about audio.  First, maybe send an email to Amir and CC genivi-projects, see what he knows.12:08
gunnarxSecond if it is confirmed there is nothing in GDP for RPi, try Raspbian and see what they are using?12:09
gunnarx...and what about the original Tizen work - worth asking whoever worked on that? Maybe someone in AGL also working on yocto and RPi?  I don't know12:11
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tiagogomesHi, can someone clarify what's the relation between RVI and the IPC CommonAPI C++?12:13
gunnarxtiagogomes, can you provide more detail on your question?  what are your thoughts?12:13
gunnarxI guess the main relationship is that they are things quite actively worked on in GENIVI but what's your concern?12:16
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tiagogomesI was just wondering how each is consumed. I wonder if the IPC CommonAPI C++ is only used for local IPC12:17
gunnarxNo, there is also a SOME-IP backend.  That's for network communication.12:19
gunnarxit started with IPC though12:19
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gunnarxtiagogomes, I think I saw some email communication about RVI and CommonAPI lately but I'm not sure if anyone has proposed a direct connection.12:25
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gunnarxIf I see it correctly, RVI-core, the protocol, is more about basic robust/authenticated/secure transport. SOME-IP seems one level up with a standard for command-and-control, features for service discovery etc.  SOME-IP is preferred for internal networking (ethernet).12:28
gunnarxSo maybe layering them makes sense.  But getting the right people to comment on this would be better.12:29
tiagogomesok, thanks gunnarx12:32
gunnarxtiagogomes, you could always try creating an email thread.  Use genivi-projects with subject [RVI] and/or genivi-ipc (list used for CommonAPI and similar topics)12:37
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bashrcis there any information available about RVI dynamic agents?13:50
tiagogomesAll that I found was this: https://github.com/PDXostc/rvi_dynamic_agents13:53
tiagogomesBut I'd be interested in seeing an dynamic agent example13:53
bashrcok, that's more useful13:56
bashrcugh, redis13:58
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rZrrstreif,  hi what is RVI reference distro from developement ?14:39
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paulsherwoodgunnarx: is the SAT meeting open only to SAT team members, or to genivi members in general, or public?15:10
paulsherwoodbashrc: what's wrong with redis?15:10
bashrcredis is ok so long as you're dealing with a finite amount of data and can estimate the RAM usage15:12
bashrcon small embedded systems with unknown database maximum size redis is generally unworkable15:12
rjektbf, most data sets are finite.15:13
bashrcunless it's a socnet where posts never expire15:14
paulsherwoodgunnarx: i'm guessing (but not sure without wading through wiki content) that SAT meeting is open to any genivi member, but typically is only attended by folks who have expressly committed to spend time in SAT?15:16
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gunnarxGot disconnected.  Checking the logs15:36
gunnarxSAT meeting is a decision meeting whose primary responsibility is to ratify decisions from EGs - proposed changes to the compliance spec as prepared by expert groups.  As long as the process is followed most of the influence really happens in EG work, so that should not be a barrier for influence.15:38
gunnarxThere is a procedure around becoming a SAT member in GENIVI which should be clear to all members.  The group must be small enough to be efficient and I do my best to make sure that merit and contribution makes a difference.15:39
paulsherwoodunderstood. do i take it that folks should stay out of the meetings unless/until they have become a SAT member?15:40
gunnarxSo if you're concerned with the ability for GENIVI members to influence decisions, they have it, and it happens long before the final SAT review which is more a formality.15:40
paulsherwoodit wasn't about influence. just that this particular topic is interesting, i wondered if it were possible for irregulars to attend and learn15:41
gunnarxUnfortunately, that's correct.  To keep SAT efficient only members and invitees are welcome.  Again, it should be no problem for somebody who has relevant input to a topic to be invited.15:41
gunnarxRight now we are going through compliance spec change reviews, and those have been sent to the whole membership before15:42
paulsherwoodack15:42
gunnarxThus the membership input to those topics should have happened already.15:42
gunnarxThat's about all I intend to discuss on this topic today.  I have a new personal agenda which basically boils down to *suspending all work* until the remaining Wiki transfer is completed...15:43
gunnarxWho wants to help out? :-)15:44
paulsherwoodyou mean help out with transferring wiki from private confluence to public?15:44
paulsherwoodor from mediawiki to confluence?15:45
gunnarxI mean to ensure we finalize the transfer from mediawiki to the new confluence.15:49
paulsherwoodi'm willing to do a few pages. as penance for even suggesting this farce in the first place :)15:50
paulsherwoodpls point me at some15:50
gunnarxI'm personally on the analysis stage so I can't point it out, but basically you can pick one and see if it exists in the new wiki.  If it does, compare the content.  Be careful not to create duplicates but it should be clear if you check the Spaces.15:51
gunnarx"View in hierarchy" is a good function to see all pages in a space.15:51
gunnarxWhen mediawiki page is transferred, replace its content completely with a link to the new page.15:51
paulsherwoodgahhhhhh! /win 6815:54
paulsherwoodgaaahhhhhh! again.15:54
paulsherwoodsorry, i'll scream elsewhere and then do a few15:55
gunnarxsounds like a good idea b/c I have no idea what that was about...15:57
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tiagogomescan someone suggest a document-oriented database for use in a baseline?16:04
* rjek struggles to suggest anything other than PostgreSQL :)16:06
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gantiagogomes, not being a db expert, help me understand what you mean by document-oriented... An "object database"?  NoSQL?16:25
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tiagogomesgan NoSQL, something that I can use to store json documents in the database16:26
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paulsherwoodtiagogomes: what kind of baseline? genivi baseline?16:27
paulsherwoodgunnarx: i was just screaming about links in confluence pointing at the mediawiki, and other things16:28
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gunnarxtiagogomes, so a basic key-value API then?  Are you using persistence-client-library?16:31
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paulsherwoodgunnarx: is http://wiki.projects.genivi.org/index.php/Compositor_and_LayerManagementClientAPI_Compliant_Specification_10.0_Leviathan supposed to be public17:00
paulsherwoods/supposed/ok/17:00
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gunnarxpaulsherwood, there is no login to wiki.projects.genivi.org.  I would draw the conclusion from there.17:28
gunnarxso, yes, transfer all the useful content of wiki.projects.genivi.org to the other wiki.17:29
paulsherwoodgunnarx: so i've moved a bunch of pages, but now find they're probably in the wrong place :/17:29
gunnarxdid you use the existing spaces structure?17:29
paulsherwoodi tried17:29
paulsherwoodbelieve me, i did :)17:29
paulsherwoodi got confused because there is 'Project Wiki Overview' and Projects space17:30
paulsherwoodwhat is supposed to be the difference between those two things?17:30
paulsherwoodie what is https://at.projects.genivi.org/wiki/display/WIK4/Project+Wiki+overview for?17:31
gunnarxfor overview I presume :)17:31
gunnarxProjects Space, not sure17:31
paulsherwoodProjects Space has more content in it, iiuc17:31
gunnarxbut certain projects have their own space is all I'm saying17:31
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paulsherwoodand Project Clusters? (ffs :-0)17:32
paulsherwoodand now i can't move the pages... 'Move failed. There was a problem contacting the server.'17:33
paulsherwoodanyways, i've moved all of Wayland IVI Extension and its subpages17:34
paulsherwoodi'll quit now, before i do any more damage :)17:35
gunnarxok good17:36
paulsherwoodgood that i'm quitting? :)17:38
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paulsherwoodgunnarx: i'm not the only one that's been confused, obviously...17:53
paulsherwoodhttps://at.projects.genivi.org/wiki/display/PROJ/GENIVI+Baselines17:53
paulsherwoodhttps://at.projects.genivi.org/wiki/display/WIK4/GENIVI+Baselines17:53
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gunnarxpaulsherwood, yes the duplicate on baseline is known.19:11
gunnarxpaulsherwood, You moved Franca2EA and WaylandIVIExtension right?19:11
gunnarxI didn't see any  subpages of Wayland IVI Extension - where did you put them? :)19:11
gunnarxoh wait, I found them, but not as subpages :)  never mind19:14
paulsherwoodgunnarx: i did my best20:13
paulsherwood:)20:13
gunnarxYes, it's a good start.  A bit more cleanup needed in reality since copied links will point back to the old wiki.20:14
paulsherwoodmoving them was beyond my powers, apparently20:14
paulsherwoodgunnarx: i fixed the links, i believe20:14
gunnarx ok good20:14
paulsherwoodif i ever agree a wiki move again, i will insist on proof-of-migration-script beforehand20:15
paulsherwoodand i mean ever, in my career :)20:15
jeremiahheh20:17
paulsherwoodi asked joel to move them to the right place. i have a slight fear that the move is impossible, irrespective of  supercowpowers20:17
paulsherwoodhey, jeremiah :)20:18
jeremiah"This wiki does not have super cow powers." :-)20:18
jeremiahHey Mr. Sherwood!20:18
jeremiahAnd hej Gunnar!20:18
jeremiahI'm about to dive in to wiki transfer.20:19
paulsherwoodactually, for certain pressurepoints in the nascent open source automotive ecosystem, we three might consider ourselves influential :)20:19
jeremiahJust have to do some ether mining first. =)20:19
paulsherwoodwhat could we FIX, the three of us? :)20:19
* paulsherwood is not tempted to propose adopting a new wiki, fwiw20:21
rjekWiki bikesheds are the best bikesheds.20:25
paulsherwoodgunnarx: what was used to create https://at.projects.genivi.org/wiki/display/GRK/2_Reference+Architecture+and+Compliance+Specification?preview=/2785425/9994266/architecture11-2015.PNG ?20:25
gunnarxMicrosoft Powerpoint20:26
paulsherwoodgah! :)20:27
gunnarxthe Professional Black and Blue Windows 95 to Vista upgrade 5 license Family Edition  (tm)20:27
gunnarxIIRC20:27
paulsherwoodso, could we get it turned into (say) plantuml, and allow it to be maintained, as the defacto architecture for ivi?20:27
gunnarxindeed20:27
gunnarxit is the defacto architecture ;)20:28
gunnarxwell that picture is only a block diagram to be correct20:28
gunnarxIf you'll excuse me I'm busy with Wiki work...20:28
paulsherwoodi know it is. but if we want contributions and input from relevant LINUX people, powerpoint is not the weapon to choose20:29
paulsherwoodwiki? whatever :)20:29
gunnarxplantuml is great, go for it20:29
paulsherwoodseriously?20:30
gunnarxwhat you pointed to is a .png - I believe open source tools can view it...20:30
jeremiahheh20:30
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paulsherwoodi know, but that's not the same as contributing to it :)20:31
gunnarxThe content on that page is : Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License20:31
jeremiahI have the Debian 5 license Family Edition.20:31
jeremiahOr is it the 5 Family license Edition?20:31
gunnarxIf reused as is would be nice to note the fact that it's a picture of GENIVI Reference Architeture.20:32
gunnarxAlthough the license does require attribution so that's covered I suppose20:33
paulsherwoodif someone were to recreate that content for plantuml, and establish a git repo containing the text, would you, gunnarx, as GENIVI SAT lead, encourage adoption of said git representation as GENIVI's default representation of its architecture, and contributions thereto? :)20:33
gunnarxomg20:33
paulsherwoodthis channel is logged, as you know :)20:33
jeremiah:)20:33
paulsherwoodtake your time, gunnarx - it's a momentous decision :)20:34
gunnarxif you want my opinion I think you are overthinking this a bit .  I hadn't expected it to change that often or that much.  The thing is, if people have opinions on this then I hope they share their opinion, and it will of course have effect20:34
gunnarxI just don't see an onslaught of input so far, but if that happens, a more editable format becomes a necessity20:35
gunnarxAgain, I'm not stopping anyone from doing what they want to make it easier to contribute...20:35
paulsherwoodthe reason i'm asking, is that i have some colleagues who, right now, are reviewing a production architecture.... and want to align with GENIVI where possible/sensible20:36
gunnarxHaving it plantUML would be cool though.20:36
paulsherwoodestablishing a git repo for trading comments/ideas on arch would be useful for them, particularly since it would help them to demonstrate ideas/changes vs GENIVI upstream20:37
gunnarx If you'll excuse me I'm busy with Wiki work... :)20:37
paulsherwoodwhatever :)20:37
gunnarxok20:37
paulsherwoodi take your previous comments as, 'if they build it, i may come'20:37
gunnarxif that's better than email...20:37
paulsherwoodwhat's the forum for public discussion about that diagram via email?20:38
rjekwin 7020:38
rjeksigh20:38
paulsherwoodlol20:38
paulsherwoodrjek: only 70? i'm up to 7520:39
rjek70 is not the last window :)20:39
jeremiahYou guys are IRC junkies.20:40
paulsherwoodjeremiah: you say that like it's a bad thing20:40
jeremiah:-)20:40
paulsherwoodin another channel, two colleagues have already threatened to resign if i ask them to create the plantuml for that diagram20:41
paulsherwoodcontributors are hard to find :)20:42
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paulsherwoodanyways, i deduce that paulsherwood, jeremiah and gunnarx all think that a plantuml implementation would be a 'good thing'...20:46
paulsherwoodif we can't get it done 'by the community' maybe we create a startup and do it with VC funds? :)20:47
jeremiahlol20:51
* radiofree wonders how much paulsherwood has had to drink20:51
radiofree;)20:51
jeremiahradiofree: Can you create our plantuml diagram?20:51
paulsherwood20:41 < paulsherwood> in another channel, two colleagues have already threatened to resign if i ask them to create the plantuml for that diagram20:52
myselfput it out as a bounty20:52
paulsherwoodthat's an idea :)20:52
radiofreejeremiah: I have enough on my plate atm :)20:52
jeremiah:-)20:52
radiofreeJoking aside, plantuml isn't *that* bad20:53
radiofreeI guess the fun for someone would be coming up with a decent renderer20:53
jeremiahOf all the UMLs its one of the better ones.20:54
radiofreejeremiah: for sequence diagram's, i think it's perhaps the best21:54
radiofreeother things.. it takes some love :)21:55
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