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| Tarnyko | morning | 07:32 |
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| fredcadete | good morning | 07:51 |
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| tcouniha | morning folks | 09:14 |
| CTtpollard | hey | 09:14 |
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| jeremiah | OHAI! | 12:46 |
| rjek | This is how I now picture jeremiah https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/aa/ca/70/aaca70611707054e7f8577915ad2ad9a.jpg | 12:49 |
| tom__ | haha, hi jeremiah | 12:54 |
| tom__ | erm | 12:54 |
| *** tom__ is now known as CTtpollard | 12:54 | |
| CTtpollard | that's better | 12:54 |
| jeremiah | Look just like me. :-) | 12:54 |
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| paulsherwood | genivi tools team meeting here in 2 mins | 12:58 |
| gunnarx | yay! | 12:59 |
| gunnarx | can't wait! | 12:59 |
| paulsherwood | == GENIVI Tools Team Meeting Starts == | 13:00 |
| * paulsherwood can type again, mostly | 13:00 | |
| paulsherwood | how are y'all? | 13:00 |
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| gunnarx | fine | 13:00 |
| KlausUhl | Great, thank you! | 13:00 |
| paulsherwood | cool! | 13:01 |
| gunnarx | is this the roll call? | 13:01 |
| paulsherwood | effectively, yes... we don't normally do roll call though | 13:01 |
| gunnarx | I know... | 13:01 |
| paulsherwood | minutes of last meeting https://genivi-oss.atlassian.net/wiki/display/TOOL/TT-minutes-20150928 | 13:01 |
| * paulsherwood is sad to admit he has not implemented his actions | 13:01 | |
| paulsherwood | anyone have new items for the agenda? | 13:02 |
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| Bjoern_ | hi | 13:02 |
| gmacario | Hi there! | 13:02 |
| philrob | hi there ! | 13:02 |
| paulsherwood | welcome all :) | 13:02 |
| gunnarx | rather, remove an item. I'm told confluence should be handled at PMO. Not sure if Joel is here? | 13:03 |
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| paulsherwood | ok, done. any others? | 13:03 |
| paulsherwood | assuming silence means no... | 13:04 |
| paulsherwood | agenda is https://genivi-oss.atlassian.net/wiki/display/TOOL/TT-minutes-20151012 | 13:04 |
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| manfred_ | hi | 13:05 |
| paulsherwood | - Build Tools - | 13:05 |
| paulsherwood | (hi manfred) | 13:05 |
| philrob | confluence: Joel said that the launch of the new server that will allow us to get rid of atlassian in the pathname is scheduled at the time of Fall AMM | 13:05 |
| gunnarx | ok, good to know | 13:05 |
| gunnarx | From last week: gmacario, can you ask on genivi-ipc the remaining questions? | 13:05 |
| paulsherwood | philrob: before, or after? | 13:05 |
| gmacario | I just figured it out myself by reading the documentation | 13:06 |
| gmacario | and am looking forward the official annoucement during the AMM | 13:06 |
| gunnarx | gmacario, OK. I forget what it was about | 13:06 |
| manfred_ | * RTFM lol | 13:06 |
| gunnarx | if it's documented, maybe all is well | 13:06 |
| paulsherwood | any comments on build tools? | 13:06 |
| gmacario | Question was about CommonAPI release which works with Franca IDL 0.10 - this is not in the FM (yet) | 13:07 |
| philrob | confluence: before the AMM expectedly | 13:07 |
| paulsherwood | philrob: tvm | 13:07 |
| * paulsherwood can advance to next topic, assuming 'build tools' is not generating any new things today | 13:08 | |
| gunnarx | manfred_, any answer to gmacario? | 13:08 |
| gunnarx | yes, ok, I guess this topic is covered later in a way | 13:08 |
| * paulsherwood notices that CIAT was next topic in the last meeting, even if it wasn't on the agenda :) | 13:09 | |
| manfred_ | CommonAPI currently uses Franca 0.9.1. Franca 0.10 will be supported by end of 2015 | 13:09 |
| gunnarx | I'm not sure if I have a clear idea what is behind each topic. | 13:09 |
| paulsherwood | we can discuss CIAT as part of build tools maybe | 13:09 |
| gunnarx | is Build tools and CIAT different. What's a build tool? | 13:09 |
| gunnarx | Is it franca, is it the commonapi generators? | 13:09 |
| paulsherwood | gunnarx: mainly the tope level agenda items (build tools, uml modeling wtc) were taken from the charter | 13:10 |
| gunnarx | frankly I think we have a lot of overlap in the agenda items, they are too general | 13:10 |
| paulsherwood | that's fair. | 13:10 |
| paulsherwood | would you propose different items? | 13:10 |
| gunnarx | No, not now I wouldn't. We do our best and move on | 13:11 |
| paulsherwood | to answer your question before... build tool to me includes lowlevel tools (make, cmake, qmake, autotools etc) | 13:11 |
| paulsherwood | and higer level tools (bitbake, obs etc) | 13:11 |
| gunnarx | ok, got it | 13:11 |
| gunnarx | static analysis? :) | 13:11 |
| gunnarx | no we have a topic for that | 13:11 |
| paulsherwood | but that could extend to jenkins et al, to be fair | 13:11 |
| paulsherwood | static analysis is not build i think | 13:12 |
| paulsherwood | i believe in the past we've talked about code generators in this topic too | 13:12 |
| gunnarx | ok, let's move on through the agenda | 13:12 |
| paulsherwood | ok | 13:12 |
| paulsherwood | - UML modeling - | 13:12 |
| * paulsherwood makes a mental note to add ELCE feedback to the AOB | 13:13 | |
| gunnarx | Don't think we have any proposal to change tools. As far as the model, there's some proposal how to rearrange it according to new ref.arch. | 13:13 |
| gunnarx | more of a SAT topic that one though | 13:13 |
| paulsherwood | gunnarx: is UML modeling still something we should keep on our agenda? | 13:14 |
| gunnarx | if someone wants to advance the tooling/process side of it | 13:14 |
| Bjoern_ | we had some stakeholders like Guido in the past, but currently the interest doesn't seem to be very high :- ) | 13:14 |
| manfred_ | think discussion makes sense once we have yamaica in OSS | 13:14 |
| manfred_ | i mean the new version | 13:14 |
| gunnarx | yamaica is not OSS? I didn't know | 13:15 |
| gunnarx | ah, ok | 13:15 |
| paulsherwood | shall we move forward, then? | 13:15 |
| gunnarx | yes | 13:15 |
| manfred_ | yes | 13:15 |
| gunnarx | (IMHO) | 13:15 |
| paulsherwood | - Debugging and Analysis - | 13:15 |
| gunnarx | ok, so there's been some talk on coverity. Any planned next things to share? | 13:16 |
| gunnarx | gmacario? | 13:16 |
| gmacario | Sure I made some experience using Coverity to scan EG-SI components | 13:16 |
| gmacario | You may find my results at https://collab.genivi.org/wiki/display/genivi/Coverity+Scans+for+EG-SI+Components | 13:16 |
| paulsherwood | would it be sensible/feasibly to add that process into a GENIVI CIAT process? | 13:17 |
| gunnarx | We have some spotty coverage of genivi projects today, some maintainers are running coverity - I might like to see a general approach... | 13:17 |
| gmacario | Looks like creating scan reports using Coverity is quite easy if your codebase (1) is on GitHub and (2) builds with Travis CI | 13:17 |
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| gmacario | For other repo and/or CI tools some additional steps have to be performed which are explained in the page | 13:17 |
| gunnarx | paulsherwood, yes, exactly. But it needs to be checked. It seems easier in some environments as gmacario reports. | 13:17 |
| paulsherwood | ok. any interest in genivi moving to github? :) | 13:17 |
| gunnarx | gmacario, the slide deck ended with that it was difficult to automate the free version? | 13:17 |
| gmacario | No only which an additional process has to be performed as part of the system image build | 13:18 |
| gmacario | (for instance) | 13:18 |
| gunnarx | paulsherwood, I don't think there is any interest :) But the license allows anyone to clone and copy :) | 13:18 |
| paulsherwood | ack | 13:18 |
| paulsherwood | ok, so i guuess we could say that there is interest in adding Coverity (or similar) to a CIAT pipeline | 13:19 |
| gunnarx | ok, so one fallback option is sync copies on github, nice if someone could look into how to include in CIAT instead. | 13:19 |
| paulsherwood | ack | 13:19 |
| gunnarx | paulsherwood, I think that's a fair conclusion | 13:19 |
| paulsherwood | gunnarx: you and i have an action to document a plan for CIAT iirc | 13:19 |
| jeremiah | And I think we should view stuff on GitHub as "just another git tree" as opposed to a "fork" | 13:20 |
| gunnarx | oh crap | 13:20 |
| gunnarx | :) | 13:20 |
| paulsherwood | any more on debug and analysis? | 13:20 |
| gunnarx | paulsherwood, let's sync up after the meeting | 13:20 |
| paulsherwood | ok | 13:20 |
| gunnarx | what do people need for debugging anyway? | 13:20 |
| paulsherwood | moving on? | 13:20 |
| gmacario | ok | 13:21 |
| paulsherwood | - Automated Testing - | 13:21 |
| gunnarx | just wanna check the goal of TT on this topic quickly, if that's ok? | 13:21 |
| paulsherwood | please do gunnarx | 13:21 |
| paulsherwood | go ahead | 13:21 |
| gunnarx | what support could GENIVI give. Gdb integration? Eclipse with CDT is enough? what? | 13:21 |
| gunnarx | thinking out loud, the GDP SDK / hands on demonstrated GDB on target I think, but did it work? | 13:22 |
| paulsherwood | we've been considering options to handle including/excluding debug in baserock genivi baseline | 13:23 |
| steve_l | define work :) You could debug things.. Q would be if that meant everything. | 13:23 |
| gunnarx | ok, that means it worked. for what was tested? | 13:23 |
| gunnarx | my recollection was some snag. anyway. | 13:23 |
| gunnarx | if no answers to my general questions paul, you can move on. | 13:23 |
| paulsherwood | ok thanks... | 13:24 |
| steve_l | gunnarx: one of the biggest helps I think would be to document well what debug and log mechanisms the components supported. | 13:24 |
| jeremiah | I think one has to enable debugging symbols | 13:24 |
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| jeremiah | And that means a new build essentially | 13:24 |
| gunnarx | jeremiah, yes of course. simple point easy to forget | 13:24 |
| gmacario | Isn't (at least Yocto) building a -debug package for this purpose? | 13:25 |
| paulsherwood | jeremiah: true... we enable them by default, but are interested in supporting the ability to turn that off | 13:25 |
| jeremiah | At least if you want to use GDB, maybe other tools have other approaches | 13:25 |
| fredcadete | sorry to barge in, but under yocto by default you don't need a new build | 13:25 |
| jeremiah | fredcadete: How does one do it in Yocto? | 13:25 |
| gunnarx | barging in is the point of the meeting :) | 13:25 |
| paulsherwood | +1 | 13:25 |
| fredcadete | yocto compiles with debug symbols. then at the point of packaging, it strips them from what goes into package | 13:25 |
| fredcadete | and adds the symbols to package-dbg | 13:26 |
| jeremiah | Ah okay, that's like debian where you have to install the debugging package | 13:26 |
| fredcadete | so, my flow when I want to use gdb is to install package-dbg | 13:26 |
| fredcadete | yep | 13:26 |
| jeremiah | nice | 13:26 |
| gunnarx | ok, good to know. | 13:26 |
| fredcadete | mind, by default it also compiles with -O2 which is not the most helpful in some cases | 13:26 |
| fredcadete | because debugging step-by-step will have strange jumps and variables optimized | 13:27 |
| fredcadete | if you want to avoid that you DO have to rebuild, I think activating the DEBUG=1 variable | 13:27 |
| steve_l | also can't remember but how easy is the switch to pkg-dbg? Automated option? | 13:27 |
| steve_l | As no runtime pkg mgr installed | 13:27 |
| fredcadete | steve_l: oh, of course | 13:28 |
| fredcadete | I am installing a package manager | 13:28 |
| fredcadete | I don't remember if it's inside the gdp or not, maybe not | 13:28 |
| gunnarx | see what I started now, paulsherwood ? :) There's lots of discussion possible on this topic. How to structure - can we schedule a longer chat after meeting? | 13:28 |
| paulsherwood | ok... any more on debug today? | 13:28 |
| paulsherwood | on debug? sure | 13:29 |
| steve_l | *think* not | 13:29 |
| fredcadete | derrail ended, go ahead | 13:29 |
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| paulsherwood | fredcadete: thanks for the input | 13:29 |
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| jeremiah | fredcadete: Might be cool to have a wiki page from you about your debugging workflow. :-) | 13:29 |
| paulsherwood | - Automated Testing (2nd time lucky) - | 13:29 |
| gunnarx | +1 | 13:29 |
| paulsherwood | jeremiah: any comments on this? iirc there's overlap with things you've been advancing in BIT | 13:30 |
| jeremiah | Let me supply the URL for the latest status . . . | 13:30 |
| paulsherwood | tvm | 13:31 |
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| gunnarx | Small item on this topic I decided to encode the steps in CommonAPI in 10 minutes into a script. | 13:31 |
| gunnarx | (https://genivi-oss.atlassian.net/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=5472316) | 13:31 |
| paulsherwood | gunnarx: cool! | 13:32 |
| gunnarx | an idea I had is that this can become executable test of CommonAPI build/installation | 13:32 |
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| jeremiah | Yeah, we should collate all the stuff like that, document it, and run it | 13:32 |
| jeremiah | I think right now we just need a plan | 13:32 |
| gunnarx | sounds fancy, but it's not. There is one step where generators are downloaded rather than built. Anyhow, scripting makes it executable is my point. | 13:32 |
| paulsherwood | gunnarx: ok, so that's bitbake specific? | 13:32 |
| gunnarx | no | 13:33 |
| paulsherwood | (runnign patch?) | 13:33 |
| gunnarx | it's more like a native host build in fact | 13:33 |
| gunnarx | compiles commonapi generator natively, then runs it, kind of | 13:33 |
| paulsherwood | ack. but what's all that patching for? | 13:34 |
| manfred_ | gunnarx: cool - post it to the lists | 13:34 |
| gunnarx | https://github.com/gunnarx/build-common-api-cpp-native | 13:34 |
| gunnarx | manfred_, I already did I believe . genivi-ipc list? | 13:34 |
| gunnarx | so, yeah, just for info we can move on | 13:34 |
| gunnarx | manfred_, hmmm, can't find the email, maybe stuck in drafts? I'll check and send it off in that case. | 13:35 |
| paulsherwood | - Source mirroring - | 13:35 |
| paulsherwood | iirc gunnarx and jeremiah were looking into this wrt yocto/bitbake | 13:36 |
| jeremiah | Its trivially easy to do with Yocto | 13:36 |
| manfred_ | gunnar: just attach the script to the wiki where it belongs to | 13:36 |
| jeremiah | In fact, one of the big points of OE/Yocto was to collect all the source in one location | 13:36 |
| gunnarx | I haven't spoken to jeremiah lately. | 13:36 |
| jeremiah | I guess people worry it is a "fork" but it is designed to work this way | 13:36 |
| paulsherwood | ok great. so how would that location be published/maintained for genivi? | 13:36 |
| gunnarx | I also have not tried the yocto flag personally :( | 13:36 |
| gunnarx | paulsherwood, yocto's feature is really mostly useful for license compliance | 13:37 |
| jeremiah | All you do is put some flag that keeps the download sources in a dir, you move that dir to a place called "mirror" | 13:37 |
| jeremiah | and then you point your build at that. | 13:37 |
| gunnarx | i.e. when posting a binary image, you'd post required sources as well. | 13:37 |
| gunnarx | jeremiah is right in a sense, that if you just take your downloads catalog and export it, you have a mirror (matching a particular build) | 13:38 |
| jeremiah | If GENIVI is going to host that, we'll need to get some kind of license review approval. | 13:38 |
| jeremiah | And that can take a while | 13:38 |
| paulsherwood | jeremiah: ok, i'm thinking of the CIAT situation... needs to be automated and publish sources in a way that can be tracked for approval vs binaries | 13:38 |
| jeremiah | I see | 13:39 |
| Bjoern_ | have to leave, see you next week | 13:39 |
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| gunnarx | paulsherwood, that part is not that hard I suppose, keep the binaries and sources together when you publish | 13:39 |
| jeremiah | The download mirror is a one-to-one correspondence between binary and source. | 13:39 |
| jeremiah | So that ought to satisfy the GPL | 13:39 |
| jeremiah | And other FOSS licenses. | 13:39 |
| paulsherwood | so create the full mirror for every build? | 13:40 |
| jeremiah | Ah | 13:40 |
| jeremiah | I'm not sure about that. | 13:40 |
| jeremiah | I guess that would lead to a huge overflow of lots of tarballs | 13:40 |
| paulsherwood | possibly... depends how much change there actually is. assuming tarballs include version naming, maybe no need to duplicate each time | 13:41 |
| jeremiah | The mirroring solution is not really designed for a lot of churn. | 13:42 |
| paulsherwood | but is there any existing code/soln for this in yocto? i've not looked at how their autobuild thing satisfies gpl | 13:42 |
| fredcadete | you can keep the previous download directory to avoid redownloading. The problem is also how to identify downloads that you don't need anymore. I haven't figured out how to do this | 13:42 |
| jeremiah | So, you put a flag in your local.conf | 13:42 |
| jeremiah | That saves all the sources to a download dir | 13:43 |
| CTtpollard | fredcadete: exactly my issue | 13:43 |
| jeremiah | That download dir represents the *exact* set of sources you used for your binary image | 13:43 |
| paulsherwood | we're talking about a ci system, not a user | 13:43 |
| jeremiah | okay | 13:43 |
| jeremiah | I was describing user work flow. | 13:43 |
| paulsherwood | ack | 13:44 |
| jeremiah | :-) | 13:44 |
| gunnarx | fredcadete (and all) rsync with --delete flag, should be easy | 13:44 |
| paulsherwood | shall we move on? | 13:44 |
| fredcadete | paulsherwood: at the ELC there was a yocto BoF. Some yocto developers say they use autobuilder: https://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/ . They generate a source mirror: http://downloads.yoctoproject.org/mirror/sources/ | 13:44 |
| gunnarx | yes, I don't see a major problem here. You decide how many different versions of the binary you want to host (likely one or a few), you update it when it needs updating, and you sync the sources to match | 13:44 |
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| jeremiah | But that is not going to suit a CI environment which is moving quickly I feel | 13:45 |
| paulsherwood | fredcadete: ah, looks like it is keeping copies of the tarballs then | 13:45 |
| gunnarx | copying/syncing the binary might be a bigger network problem than the sources likely. | 13:45 |
| paulsherwood | jeremiah: that's what i would have thought, but yp is running autobuild every day afaik? | 13:46 |
| gunnarx | jeremiah, don't know what you mean. sources are quickly synced. the binary is bigger, but you have that problem anyhow. | 13:46 |
| paulsherwood | fredcadete: do they publish the binaries too? | 13:46 |
| gunnarx | paulsherwood, jeremiah, what are you guys talking about, what's the problem again? | 13:46 |
| fredcadete | paulsherwood: I think so: http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/pub/nightly/ | 13:46 |
| paulsherwood | fredcadete: ack | 13:46 |
| jeremiah | Well, what happens when project foo upgrades Wayland in poky and project bar is stuck on an older version? | 13:46 |
| jeremiah | Doesn't that break the build? | 13:47 |
| gunnarx | the world explodes? I don't know :) | 13:47 |
| paulsherwood | gunnarx: maybe nothing. so folks are saying source mirroring for yocto is easily solved | 13:47 |
| paulsherwood | let's move on | 13:47 |
| paulsherwood | - CommonAPI 3.1.x setup using gunnarx/franca_install_automation - | 13:47 |
| gmacario1 | This topic is OK. | 13:48 |
| paulsherwood | was this topic closed already? i just copied it from last time | 13:48 |
| gunnarx | don't think we have news. I think I reported last time that common API should be functioning | 13:48 |
| paulsherwood | ok | 13:48 |
| gunnarx | could be niceified | 13:48 |
| paulsherwood | onto AOB? | 13:48 |
| gmacario1 | Yes it does and I submitted a couple PR to https://github.com/gunnarx/franca_install_automation | 13:48 |
| gunnarx | ok, thanks gmacario1. paulsherwood I think we're good and can move on this time | 13:49 |
| paulsherwood | gmacario1: cool :) | 13:49 |
| paulsherwood | - AOB - | 13:49 |
| paulsherwood | ELCE: feedback | 13:49 |
| gunnarx | it was rubbish | 13:49 |
| gunnarx | (I hope :) | 13:49 |
| paulsherwood | the automotive panel was very well attended | 13:49 |
| fredcadete | gunnarx: you were there? | 13:49 |
| paulsherwood | lots of very good discussion. thanks to all who contributed. | 13:49 |
| gunnarx | fredcadete, no, that's why I hope it was rubbish, a little joke :) | 13:49 |
| paulsherwood | i undertook to write a summary for genivi | 13:49 |
| paulsherwood | will add that to my actions | 13:50 |
| fredcadete | paulsherwood: agree. I have good feedback from my colleagues as well | 13:50 |
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| gunnarx | LWN articles up yet? | 13:50 |
| jeremiah | It was good, cathartic. :) | 13:50 |
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| gunnarx | Just so I know that I have to wake up and catch up :) | 13:50 |
| philrob | I was there: no rubbish :) | 13:50 |
| jeremiah | One of the best things about the Linux Conf was the reverse engineering of graphics driver etnaviv | 13:50 |
| jeremiah | And how that is being used in production | 13:50 |
| fredcadete | I was hoping to see an increase in IRC attendance because of the panel attendance. But I'm not sure it has happened | 13:51 |
| paulsherwood | no, about the same | 13:51 |
| jeremiah | fredcadete: I think it has, more lurkers | 13:51 |
| paulsherwood | in other news, I attended waltminer's AGL talk... was disappointed about his AGL vs GENIVI slide and told him so | 13:52 |
| paulsherwood | we need more proactive collaboration imo | 13:52 |
| gunnarx | yeah! it should totally have been GENIVI vs AGL, not AGL vs GENIVI | 13:52 |
| gunnarx | again, a joke. I agree paulsherwood, seriously we should not consider it like that | 13:53 |
| paulsherwood | however he did state that AGL is collaborating with GENIVI on CIAT, so we should wrap up what we're doing on that :) | 13:53 |
| jeremiah | Still feels like its more competitive than cooperative. | 13:53 |
| paulsherwood | jeremiah: i don't think it's deliberately compettivie... just that folks can easily misread long-distance comms | 13:53 |
| jeremiah | True dat. | 13:54 |
| gunnarx | that's quite silly. At the most organizations may compete a bit for resources/members, but we're approaching the problem differently and complementary, IMO | 13:54 |
| paulsherwood | agl folks think it's hard to get useful stuff out of genivi at time (the internal wiki etc) | 13:54 |
| philrob | Walt asked me about the media manager phase 2 work (on the way back from the guinness brewery) | 13:54 |
| gunnarx | paulsherwood, I don't get it | 13:54 |
| gunnarx | "agl folks" can just ask | 13:54 |
| gunnarx | and we'll do our best | 13:54 |
| philrob | I told him AGL should consider taking over some of the workpackages described there | 13:55 |
| paulsherwood | gunnarx: my stuff on GAD made it to LWN, haven't seen anything about the collab panel | 13:55 |
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| gmacario1 | Please also report about the visit to the Guinness brewery for those like me who did not attend :P | 13:55 |
| paulsherwood | philrob: afaik AGL doesn't have the concept of work packages precisely | 13:55 |
| philrob | perhaps, but there are requirements and use cases described there, this is a starting point | 13:56 |
| jeremiah | gmacario1: It was delicious | 13:56 |
| paulsherwood | philrob: ack | 13:56 |
| paulsherwood | any more AOB? | 13:56 |
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| fredcadete | the meta-ivi/meta-ivi-common situation is a timebomb | 13:57 |
| fredcadete | there, I said it | 13:57 |
| jeremiah | heh | 13:57 |
| jeremiah | fredcadete: Do you feel better? | 13:57 |
| jeremiah | :-) | 13:57 |
| gmacario1 | jeremiah: I believe so: this time I ended up with attending only http://oktoberfesttorino.com/ | 13:57 |
| gunnarx | fredcadete, what's the situation? | 13:57 |
| fredcadete | no :'( | 13:58 |
| paulsherwood | well, genivi could adopt meta-ivi-common too? :) | 13:58 |
| paulsherwood | maintain it jointly? | 13:58 |
| gunnarx | paulsherwood, that was/is the plan right? | 13:58 |
| fredcadete | it could, I hope it does | 13:58 |
| steve_l | If only it was a collab effort.. | 13:58 |
| gunnarx | not sure what "the situation" is so I can't speak intelligently... | 13:58 |
| fredcadete | I don't see how the meta-ivi maintainers are taking it | 13:58 |
| paulsherwood | gunnarx: i'm not involved in the yocto genivi baseline | 13:59 |
| gunnarx | fredcadete, why do they need to "take it"? | 13:59 |
| jeremiah | fredcadete: What is the problem as you see it? | 13:59 |
| jeremiah | That we have a fork of meta-ivi? | 13:59 |
| gunnarx | fredcadete, do we have overlapping components now? | 13:59 |
| fredcadete | not components, no | 13:59 |
| fredcadete | but for example there are different versions of ivi-shell and wayland-ivi-extension | 13:59 |
| gunnarx | ^^ recipes for components | 13:59 |
| gunnarx | meta-ivi is behind, right? | 14:00 |
| fredcadete | it's just one example where I understand meta-ivi can't jump to the latest version because of compatibility concerns, and AGL wants to start with the most recent version | 14:00 |
| fredcadete | yes | 14:00 |
| gunnarx | tbh, I think AGL is making the right decision | 14:01 |
| steve_l | To be fair to meta-ivi peeps they were asked to not use the latest.. | 14:01 |
| fredcadete | gunnarx: that's the problem, each is making the right decision | 14:01 |
| fredcadete | for the mandate they have | 14:01 |
| fredcadete | then it's incompatible | 14:01 |
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| gunnarx | yes, so more shared discussion is needed | 14:01 |
| paulsherwood | fredcadete: any thoughts on a solution? | 14:01 |
| fredcadete | paulsherwood: no, I am on a pessimistic week | 14:02 |
| gunnarx | in this particular case however, I think meta-ivi (and/or GENIVI, whatever it is) should also move to the latest version. | 14:02 |
| fredcadete | maybe next week | 14:02 |
| steve_l | In this case I expect they are not even aware how the LM team is acting | 14:02 |
| jeremiah | Should we try and bring this up in the AGL layer discussion meeting tomorrow? | 14:02 |
| gunnarx | In other cases, it might be simply incompatible stuff for no good reason and I'm with you | 14:02 |
| * paulsherwood notes the time and proposes to end today's meeting nowish... discussion on interesting topics can continue of course | 14:02 | |
| paulsherwood | jeremiah: good idea | 14:02 |
| steve_l | gunnarx: But why did you ask them to use the older version then? :) | 14:03 |
| paulsherwood | can i close the meeting? | 14:03 |
| fredcadete | close | 14:03 |
| paulsherwood | == GENIVI Tools Team Meeting Ends == | 14:03 |
| paulsherwood | thanks all | 14:03 |
| paulsherwood | there are some hangover discussions iiuc, i'll be here for a while | 14:03 |
| gunnarx | steve_l, not sure I did, but let's recap that in the BIT discussion. nonetheless, we have the ability to move on, new branches, updated versions | 14:03 |
| jeremiah | paulsherwood: How do I put the meta-ivi vs. meta-ivi-common discussion onto the AGL layer agenda? Email to Walt? | 14:04 |
| paulsherwood | jeremiah: i think so, but also cc to genivi-projects and automotive-discussions, i think? this is quite an important topic? | 14:05 |
| jeremiah | Who is the maintainer of meta-ivi now? Its Ned right? | 14:05 |
| jeremiah | paulsherwood: Okay. | 14:05 |
| gunnarx | there's no blocker to start writing software on the latest and greatest wayland/weston - it would make sense if GDP does it. GDP can do this individually, or based on an updated meta-ivi branch | 14:05 |
| paulsherwood | jeremiah: no, it's his colleague in Korea | 14:05 |
| steve_l | Ned are Release Mgr I think, Tolkien as the engineer doing the work. | 14:05 |
| jeremiah | Ah, okay | 14:05 |
| paulsherwood | gunnarx: true, but then should GDP and YGB stay in step? | 14:06 |
| jeremiah | gunnarx: So perhaps the next best opportunity to sync the two layers is after the AMM? | 14:06 |
| steve_l | gunnarx: sure but it leaves a painful multitude of options in its wake.. | 14:06 |
| gunnarx | paulsherwood, we've had this discussion multiple times, sorry if you're not in the loop | 14:06 |
| paulsherwood | gunnarx: it's fine. i'm happy to stay out of it | 14:06 |
| paulsherwood | pretend i didn't ask :) | 14:06 |
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| steve_l | from outside our bubble it's routinely seen as a huge unregulated, little understood mess. Sadly that is sometimes interpreted as immaturity in the s/w | 14:07 |
| gunnarx | GDP should be based on a GENIVI baseline as default. It is however our testing ground and is allowed to stray from compliance. In this particular case, the new version is not non-compliant as far as I remember. Only meta-ivi is behind. That's a discussion I'd like to defer to the BIT however. | 14:07 |
| gunnarx | steve_l, what is "it"? | 14:07 |
| steve_l | crap like this weston/ivi-extension discussion | 14:08 |
| gunnarx | paulsherwood ^^^ hope the above clarifies the GDP strategy if it was not clear. | 14:08 |
| philrob | please, guys, cool down, we expect to have a GDP maintenance team that will improve the code governance for GDP in sync with the users expectations | 14:09 |
| * steve_l takes a deep breath :) | 14:10 | |
| gunnarx | philrob I'm cool at least, no worries here. | 14:10 |
| paulsherwood | philrob: i think we're cool... this is normal for irc after all :) | 14:10 |
| jeremiah | I'm freezing. I need to put on a sweater. | 14:10 |
| paulsherwood | was there something else we were going to discuss post-meeting? | 14:10 |
| gunnarx | I don't see any major problem here. Wayland and Weston have developed quickly, the right thing is to keep up. It's simple. | 14:10 |
| philrob | yes, of course, but get prepared to bring this topic of code governance in the foreground in the coming weeks | 14:11 |
| steve_l | Yes it's simple for Genivi 9: You can use Weston 1.6/IVI-Ext 1.30 in YBL, 1.7/1.30 in BBL, 1.8/1.49 soon 1.9/1.50 if you have any problems with Compositor and talk to the LM Team who tell you to use the latest. I'm sure no one on the outside will find that in the least confusing :) | 14:13 |
| jeremiah | :-) | 14:14 |
| gunnarx | steve_l, my point is, it's simple to see what needs to be done. So let's work to fix it. | 14:14 |
| philrob | gunnarx: agreed | 14:15 |
| steve_l | gunnarx: agreed and I'm not shouting at you. I'm just starting to tire of shouting into the wind :) | 14:16 |
| jeremiah | Yeah, I think steve_l has tried to get the various parties to align, but it is tough going | 14:16 |
| gunnarx | got it | 14:17 |
| * steve_l adds it to the BIT agenda | 14:20 | |
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| gunnarx | fredcadete, so to finish up debugging discussion_ | 14:31 |
| fredcadete | gunnarx: I'm here, go ahead | 14:32 |
| gunnarx | You make sure a package manager is installed in the image, a debug symbol package is built automatically by yocto, and you just install it on target when you need it_ | 14:32 |
| gunnarx | did I get it right? | 14:32 |
| fredcadete | for local debugging with command-line gdb, yes | 14:32 |
| fredcadete | for remote debugging, you end up slashing your wrists | 14:33 |
| CTtpollard | wow | 14:34 |
| gunnarx | oh, ok. i guess I shouldn't try that then. | 14:34 |
| gunnarx | No flag needed in local.conf to get the debug package built? | 14:34 |
| gunnarx | CTtpollard, where have you been? | 14:34 |
| * fredcadete checks local.conf | 14:35 | |
| CTtpollard | gunnarx: Dublin last week, I was lurking in the tools talk | 14:35 |
| gunnarx | ah. | 14:36 |
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| fredcadete | gunnarx: nope, nothing special activated | 14:36 |
| gunnarx | One of these days I'll get the svn to git patch sent for navit... | 14:36 |
| gunnarx | it's the one and only package that is still using subversion, and that bugs me to no end | 14:37 |
| gunnarx | means you have to build subversion-native only to fetch it, aaah | 14:37 |
| fredcadete | even on my vanilla GDP build I see *-dbg packages inside gdp-src-build/tmp/deploy/rpm/porter | 14:37 |
| gunnarx | ok, good to know | 14:38 |
| paulsherwood | gunnarx: https://github.com/navit-gps/navit | 14:39 |
| gunnarx | paulsherwood, yes that's what I'm using | 14:39 |
| gunnarx | actually, no. there is one on the navit project page... | 14:39 |
| gunnarx | which I think is "official"? | 14:39 |
| paulsherwood | http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/Main_Page | 14:39 |
| paulsherwood | moved to github in July | 14:39 |
| gunnarx | right you are, guess I remember wrong | 14:41 |
| paulsherwood | gunnarx: i remember wrong all the time :) | 14:42 |
| gunnarx | I've noticed | 14:42 |
| gunnarx | :D:D:D | 14:42 |
| paulsherwood | i guess i'll go sulk in another channel :) | 14:42 |
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| myself | btw there's a #navit on this net :) | 15:00 |
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| paulsherwood | :) | 15:01 |
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| gunnarx | myself, I know. Don't have any questions or things to discuss right now, that's all :) | 15:04 |
| fredcadete | myself, I think myself can be a confusing name on IRC :/ | 15:05 |
| * myself bows deeply | 15:05 | |
| myself | at your service! :) | 15:06 |
| fredcadete | it even works on emotes! | 15:06 |
| fredcadete | marvellous | 15:06 |
| gunnarx | I once said to myself: "you are acting really stupid today" | 15:09 |
| * CTtpollard has said that more than once to himself | 15:10 | |
| gunnarx | yes... but have you said it to myself? | 15:10 |
| gunnarx | myself, I know. is quite different from I know myself, which clearly I do not. | 15:10 |
| myself | Exploiting an unpatched pronoun-dereferencing vuln in the english-language parser since 1993 :) | 15:11 |
| gunnarx | it gets old quickly, doesn't it? :) | 15:11 |
| myself | Not really. | 15:14 |
| * CTtpollard starts a kronos build for raspi following the instructions posted to genivi-projects | 15:20 | |
| fredcadete | kronos!! | 15:20 |
| fredcadete | yocto 1.8? | 15:20 |
| gunnarx | awesome | 15:21 |
| CTtpollard | fido yes fredcadete | 15:21 |
| fredcadete | cool | 15:21 |
| fredcadete | I started today the upgrade to kronos, but targeting renesas boards | 15:22 |
| fredcadete | it's being a bit harsher than expected | 15:22 |
| fredcadete | I'll share my changes to meta-ivi and meta-renesas when/if I'm done | 15:22 |
| CTtpollard | fredcadete: meta-raspberrypi requires fido | 15:23 |
| CTtpollard | I would have liked to try it on poky first | 15:23 |
| CTtpollard | *Dizzy | 15:23 |
| CTtpollard | so many names | 15:23 |
| CTtpollard | well requires fido for raspi2 support | 15:23 |
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| gunnarx | CTtpollard, I noticed, and responded the same to Amir just now | 15:33 |
| CTtpollard | ah yes, thunderbird agrees | 15:34 |
| gunnarx | when you have time, please read it (just concerned about audiomanager in the long run) | 15:34 |
| gunnarx | Is anyone reading weirdly truncated lines in that mail from me? | 15:36 |
| CTtpollard | gunnarx: as in, you don't want to use kronos, with an older GDP recipe for audiomanager? | 15:37 |
| CTtpollard | GDP/meta-genivi-demo | 15:37 |
| gunnarx | yes, well primarily I don't want people to call it Kronos | 15:37 |
| gunnarx | or 9.0 :) | 15:38 |
| gunnarx | it's clear why, or not? | 15:38 |
| CTtpollard | I understand that GDP versioning isn't 1to1 with meta-ivi tags? | 15:39 |
| gunnarx | it doesn't have to be, but in that case we should likely drop the GDP7/GDP8 naming that has popped up lately | 15:40 |
| gunnarx | In either case I think if you or anyone say it's "Kronos" or even "GDP9" we'll have some confusion. I'd like to avoid mostly because the AudioMgr upgrade is one of the significant changes. One of those that matter. | 15:41 |
| CTtpollard | I understand | 15:42 |
| gunnarx | We should look into what is left to port the code base to latest AM | 15:43 |
| CTtpollard | I do wonder how to model genivi-demo-platform though | 15:43 |
| gunnarx | yes? | 15:43 |
| CTtpollard | so for the generic branches for each board, once we move to forward to use baseline8, shall we use git tags and upgrade? | 15:44 |
| gunnarx | that would make sense to me | 15:44 |
| CTtpollard | and then keep experimental non strict builds on separate branches? | 15:44 |
| gunnarx | yes. | 15:45 |
| CTtpollard | ok | 15:45 |
| gunnarx | it's hard to make things perfect, but I guess we try to upgrade all supported hardware platforms in one go. Once everyone feels comfortable with a version that is based on a new baseline, the branches should move to it | 15:45 |
| gunnarx | it's not going to be 100% in sync I suppose, but roughly | 15:46 |
| CTtpollard | gunnarx: this also brings up if we want to add a 'base/master' branch where the main non unique changes can merge from | 15:46 |
| gunnarx | I don't expect people are too interested in maintaining old branches, I would just tag the 7.0 versions and let the branch move forward | 15:47 |
| gunnarx | makes sense to everyone? | 15:47 |
| gunnarx | I thought we agreed qemu branch could be our "base" | 15:47 |
| gunnarx | unless there is some problem... | 15:47 |
| CTtpollard | gunnarx: well, I think jeremiah has contacted LF admins to set the remote head to the qemu branch | 15:48 |
| gunnarx | I thought he had shell access | 15:48 |
| CTtpollard | he does I think, but it may be restricted access | 15:48 |
| gunnarx | ok, kind of sucks | 15:49 |
| gunnarx | qemu (x86 and arm) is officially supported by meta-ivi anyway, and I'm quite sure well supported by poky right? So it should always be buildable with least effort, I'm thinking | 15:49 |
| CTtpollard | the documented gitolite command doesn't work anyway | 15:50 |
| CTtpollard | yup | 15:50 |
| gunnarx | I gave the command in our previous discussion, assuming you have write access to the filesystem | 15:50 |
| CTtpollard | yes he's tried that I believe | 15:50 |
| gunnarx | git symbolic-ref? | 15:50 |
| CTtpollard | 'ssh git@host symbolic-ref <repo> refs/head/prod' | 15:51 |
| CTtpollard | but best to have this conversation when he is arounf | 15:51 |
| CTtpollard | I don't wan't to misquote | 15:52 |
| gunnarx | kindof, yes. | 15:52 |
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| CTtpollard | 'ssh git-genivi@git.projects.genivi.org symbolic-ref genivi-demo-platform refs/head/qemux86-64 | 15:57 |
| CTtpollard | I have RW on the repo | 15:57 |
| CTtpollard | which gives a fatal | 15:57 |
| gunnarx | It's wrong | 15:58 |
| gunnarx | ssh git@host cd <repo> && git symbolic-ref HEAD refs/head/qemux86-64 | 15:58 |
| gunnarx | something like that instead | 15:58 |
| CTtpollard | the way I did it should also work afaik | 15:58 |
| CTtpollard | Usage: ssh git@host symbolic-ref <repo> <arguments to git-symbolic-ref> | 15:59 |
| CTtpollard | allow 'git symbolic-ref' over a gitolite connection | 15:59 |
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| gunnarx | yeah, but again, I think that's running a gitolite command, not a git shell command | 15:59 |
| gunnarx | so, as you have said, if gitolite does not support or allow it... | 16:00 |
| CTtpollard | I think does not allow, however it has been configured | 16:00 |
| gunnarx | need shell access and write permissions to the repo directory to do what I proposed | 16:00 |
| gunnarx | ok. back to square one | 16:01 |
| gunnarx | Goodmorning jlrmagnus | 16:02 |
| jlrmagnus | Morning Gunnar. | 16:02 |
| jlrmagnus | https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/our-can-bus-firewall-coming-along-nicely-magnus-feuer?trk=hp-feed-article-title-publish | 16:02 |
| jlrmagnus | Just for you... | 16:02 |
| jlrmagnus | Please note the phrase "existing architectures" before you start flaming. | 16:02 |
| gunnarx | I'm about to leave work. But now I have to check out the awesome can stuff | 16:02 |
| jlrmagnus | The power pointer goes deep into the tech stuff... | 16:03 |
| jlrmagnus | Just sayn' | 16:03 |
| CTtpollard | gunnarx: I'm off home now, if I sport jeremiah I'll ask him to try the direct shell access rather that the gitolite approach | 16:03 |
| gunnarx | sounds good | 16:04 |
| gunnarx | jlrmagnus, transformation? | 16:04 |
| gunnarx | mostly masking data bits right? | 16:05 |
| jlrmagnus | Boolean operations to apply to data and/or id/. | 16:05 |
| jlrmagnus | Clear certain fields in the payload before forwarding. | 16:05 |
| jlrmagnus | Change frame id, etc. | 16:05 |
| gunnarx | you have any use case for OR/XOR/NEG etc, or just nice to have? | 16:06 |
| jlrmagnus | Nice to have - Very cheap to implement. | 16:06 |
| jlrmagnus | We have a few bits left for additional ops | 16:06 |
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| jlrmagnus | How I would like Gunnar to be right now: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/devmynd/practical-object-oriented-javascript/master/images/mind-blown.gif | 16:07 |
| gunnarx | ok, I see, for outgoing frames you may need to set or clear bits depending | 16:07 |
| jlrmagnus | Exactly. | 16:07 |
| gunnarx | nothing blown here :) | 16:08 |
| gunnarx | but it looks legit | 16:08 |
| jlrmagnus | Tnx. | 16:09 |
| jlrmagnus | I'll add an "approved by Gunnar (tm)(r)" to the presentation. | 16:09 |
| gunnarx | filtering solution looks straight forward to me - the update / telematics part is the challenge | 16:09 |
| jlrmagnus | Yes. | 16:10 |
| jlrmagnus | But - The board can be configured to accept new rules only at the shop, since a specific pin has to be grounded, or OTA. | 16:10 |
| jlrmagnus | There is some deployment flexibility there. | 16:10 |
| gunnarx | PKI nightmares | 16:10 |
| gunnarx | No I won't start... | 16:10 |
| gunnarx | :) | 16:11 |
| jlrmagnus | True. Depends on where you install it. | 16:11 |
| gunnarx | rejoice in your success jlrmagnus. Now go back to SW mgmt!!! #&#$%^*@@ | 16:11 |
| jlrmagnus | But there is a public device key flashed into it. | 16:11 |
| jlrmagnus | Dude. I am hacking away. Ask me about nested DBUS calls in python. | 16:11 |
| jlrmagnus | It | 16:11 |
| jlrmagnus | Sucks | 16:11 |
| gunnarx | of course it does | 16:11 |
| jlrmagnus | Got it up and running on Friday. | 16:12 |
| rjek | Let's go back to CORBA! | 16:12 |
| jlrmagnus | Yeah! | 16:12 |
| jlrmagnus | Swizzling and marshalling ftw. | 16:12 |
| gunnarx | You need CommonAPI, where you can revel in the latest C++ draft standard ;-) | 16:12 |
| jlrmagnus | Yep. I will switch to that. | 16:12 |
| jlrmagnus | I'll implement a dummy SWM setup with all components' DBUS interface in place first. | 16:13 |
| jlrmagnus | Using python. Gianpaolo-approved. | 16:13 |
| gunnarx | works for me | 16:13 |
| jlrmagnus | Lessons learned there goes into FIDL. | 16:13 |
| gunnarx | uh oh, gmacario1 approved, I take that back | 16:13 |
| jlrmagnus | One question before we go: If we are to go full auto build with Yocto - How are we going to auto-generate C++Common API files from Franca IDL files automatically? | 16:14 |
| jlrmagnus | I've only seen Eclipse used as a generator. Will we run that in headless mode on the build server? | 16:14 |
| jlrmagnus | *Have a slight itch to break out flex/bison and write command line tools* | 16:14 |
| gunnarx | there are command line generators | 16:15 |
| gunnarx | though not flex/bison. they are implemented in java still | 16:15 |
| gunnarx | If you check today's logs (they are long), there's a wiki page and a script mentioned which deals with command line CommonAPI | 16:16 |
| jlrmagnus | Very good. I'll have a look at that. | 16:16 |
| jlrmagnus | Tnx. | 16:16 |
| jlrmagnus | Now I need to go back to Powerpoint hell, trying to describe the RVI ecosystem. | 16:17 |
| gunnarx | Maybe take a deep breath before you start going down creating a new parser :) Anyway for completeness I should mention to anyone crazy enough to try, to look at this first also https://github.com/Pelagicore/FrancaCCG | 16:17 |
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| jlrmagnus | I will not do it, especially if there are java tools available. | 16:18 |
| gunnarx | tl;dr it's been done before, use it as a basis | 16:18 |
| jlrmagnus | k | 16:18 |
| jlrmagnus | https://github.com/Pelagicore/FrancaCCG: Oh look! Readable C++... | 16:20 |
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| dbkaplun | Hey, anyone here use TunerPro or is good with tuning ECUs? | 22:59 |
| jlrmagnus | I can tune ECU on a general level, yes. | 23:09 |
| jlrmagnus | Although I haven't used TunerPro | 23:11 |
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| dbkaplun | jlrmagnus: what software do you use? | 23:58 |
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