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| Murphy | anyway i can sign up to buy one of those boards? | 01:32 |
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| Tarnyko | morning | 08:24 |
| fredcadete | morning | 08:25 |
| fredcadete | Tarnyko: if you want me to stop bike-shedding on Gerrit please say so | 08:26 |
| CTtpollard | morning :) | 08:26 |
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| JEEB | bikesheds are part of the OSS culture, after all :D | 08:33 |
| Tarnyko | fredcadete: hi ! no, in fact these are good remarks, am doing a patch set 2 right now :) | 08:42 |
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| Tarnyko | fredcadete: done ! https://gerrit.automotivelinux.org/gerrit/#/c/4123/3 still waiting for the build bot... | 09:09 |
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| fredcadete | Tarnyko: I +1'ed without waiting for the build bot | 09:10 |
| fredcadete | I live on the edge | 09:10 |
| Tarnyko | hehe :) saw that, thanks ! | 09:10 |
| CTtpollard | fredcadete: are you still drinking guinness? | 09:11 |
| fredcadete | CTtpollard: no, I am back to the trappistes | 09:11 |
| CTtpollard | fredcadete: :) | 09:11 |
| fredcadete | CTtpollard: and you, did you stay for the follow-up conferences? | 09:11 |
| CTtpollard | fredcadete: back in Manchester now, left on Wednesday evening | 09:12 |
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| CTtpollard | is anyone aware of any problems with the sign-up on https://dev.automotivelinux.org/, or if the approval emails await moderation? | 13:16 |
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| CTtpollard | disregard that, it has just appeared | 13:25 |
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| jlrmagnus | Morning | 15:32 |
| FelixH | Hi! | 15:36 |
| jlrmagnus | Hello Felix | 15:36 |
| FelixH | jlrmagnus: What BOM do you target for your board? | 15:36 |
| jlrmagnus | I'll see if I can get it from Jesse | 15:36 |
| jlrmagnus | https://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=6d86c331e2 | 15:37 |
| jlrmagnus | + http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-SIM5360A-SMT-type-3G-WCDMA-HSPA-module/1910734103.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.2.BOk6h4&ws_ab_test=201556_7,201527_1_71_72_73_74_75,201560_1 | 15:37 |
| jlrmagnus | + https://www.scantool.net/dev-tools/stn11xx/stn1110.html?utm_source=obdsol&utm_medium=btn&utm_campaign=stn1110-order | 15:37 |
| jlrmagnus | We are targeting ~100USD for the entire package, excluding RasPi2. | 15:38 |
| myself | Shame about the raspi not having a CAN controller on-die. One of the really handy thing about the Begalebone. | 15:39 |
| myself | Just add transceivers! | 15:39 |
| FelixH | wooo that's cheap | 15:39 |
| jlrmagnus | We will actually create two boards, sandwiched together. If you don't want GPS and 3G, you can get just the one with accelerometers, power management, and OBD-II/CAN./ | 15:40 |
| jlrmagnus | FelixH, That's an early estinate - I am sure there will be cost creep. | 15:40 |
| jlrmagnus | We will send out a build order for three boards next week. | 15:40 |
| FelixH | yep | 15:40 |
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| FelixH | I wish we did the same to split our board in multiple ones | 15:41 |
| jlrmagnus | The big value add with the new rev is our power management. | 15:42 |
| jlrmagnus | We can wake up on: | 15:42 |
| FelixH | But electronic guys went for a full custom board that do everything :/ | 15:42 |
| jlrmagnus | Periodic intervals. | 15:42 |
| jlrmagnus | Ignition on (OBD-II/CAN active) | 15:42 |
| jlrmagnus | SMS received. | 15:42 |
| jlrmagnus | Button | 15:42 |
| myself | accelerometer interrupt? | 15:42 |
| myself | (jostle) | 15:42 |
| jlrmagnus | Probably not, because that means constant power on for microcontroller and accelerometer. | 15:43 |
| jlrmagnus | I'll talk to Jesse about it. | 15:43 |
| jlrmagnus | SMS mode is about 5-7milliamp, which is quite nice. | 15:43 |
| jlrmagnus | Then you can shoulder tap the vehicle, have it wake up the RasPi, and do your thing. | 15:43 |
| FelixH | mhh, I think we just miss the SMS wakeup, that's a nice feature | 15:44 |
| jlrmagnus | It's a necessary feature actually. | 15:44 |
| jlrmagnus | Remote unlock, being the prime use case. | 15:44 |
| jlrmagnus | Receive SMS. Wake up body controller. Emit CAN frames to pop locks. Acknolwedge. | 15:44 |
| rjek | You're missing the "authenticate SMS body's signature and sequence counter" :) | 15:45 |
| jlrmagnus | That's done by the RasPi. | 15:46 |
| jlrmagnus | The SMS is stored in the 3G modem and just triggers a wakeup procedure. | 15:46 |
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| jlrmagnus | Once the RasPi has booted, it will read the SMS and validate it. | 15:46 |
| jlrmagnus | But yes, both those are needed. | 15:46 |
| jlrmagnus | The whole SMS will pretty much be signature. | 15:47 |
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| jlrmagnus | You could DOS the vehicle by repeatedly wake it up, though. | 15:47 |
| jlrmagnus | I.e. drain the battery. | 15:47 |
| ToxicGumbo-work | :-) | 15:47 |
| jlrmagnus | Tough one to counter since there are no filtering mechanisms in the modem. | 15:47 |
| jlrmagnus | For an OEM solution, we can do it in the network. | 15:48 |
| rjek | If you've received too many failed authentications, turn off modem for a bit. | 15:48 |
| rjek | Still a DoS, but at least your battery won't be flat. | 15:48 |
| jlrmagnus | True. | 15:49 |
| myself | It'll delay legit requests but only until the next wake-and-process ccle. | 15:49 |
| De|ta | run it off an aux battery that only charges when the car's charging system is on. | 15:49 |
| jlrmagnus | Problem is that the remote unlock will suffer since the car won't pop locks until next time it wakes up. | 15:49 |
| jlrmagnus | That will piss the owner off. | 15:49 |
| rjek | More or less than a flat battery? | 15:50 |
| jlrmagnus | True. | 15:50 |
| myself | Or log data from a temperature sensor to determine the diurnal temperature swing (and insolation), determine with a large swing that you must be sitting outside, and therefore you have fresh air and it's okay to start the ICE once in a while to recharge the battery. :) Just don't do that if you're in a garage. :P | 15:50 |
| jlrmagnus | Remote unlock bounced on a backend sucks anyway since connectivity is not guaranteed. | 15:50 |
| jlrmagnus | brb | 15:50 |
| rjek | I think somebody being pissed that they couldn't unlock their car remotely might be suffering from some serious first world problems. | 15:50 |
| jlrmagnus | We've solved that. I shall see if I can find the video. | 15:51 |
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| myself | Well the keyfob still works, and the key still works, just the cellphone response time is delayed somewhat, in a DoS condition. Oh darn. | 15:51 |
| De|ta | What's the use case for SMS unlock when there's a keyfob? | 15:52 |
| rjek | My fear about using SMSes is that sometimes they take hours to arrive | 15:52 |
| rjek | So it doesn't work because it's stuck at your cellco's messaging centre. You have to stay by your car until it arrives, or it'll unlock at some point in the future | 15:52 |
| myself | I'm sitting in my office, you're down in the parking lot and need to get something out of my car, I SMS the thing and unlock it so you can grab the item. | 15:53 |
| rjek | De|ta: tsk, keyfobs are so 1990s. | 15:53 |
| myself | Or maybe there's no keyfob. I'm quite fond of mine, because 315MHz just works. :P But yeah, I could ditch it if the cellphone side was good enough. | 15:53 |
| CTtpollard | myself: that sounds horrifying | 15:53 |
| De|ta | Do I think ring you to say lock it again? | 15:53 |
| myself | Or I just lock it again after a minute, or whatever. | 15:54 |
| * rjek does think the whole thing is a solution looking for a problem | 15:54 | |
| FelixH | The use case I'll see personally for SMS is more to wakeup an electric car in sleeping mode, as others not very found of unlock with SMS | 15:54 |
| rjek | Does an electric car require significant notice of your intention to use it? | 15:55 |
| FelixH | if your battery need to heat, yes :o | 15:56 |
| FelixH | but globally if you plan to store an EV for a long time (many months) you generally put it in a sleep mode to avoid it to fully discharge | 15:57 |
| rjek | In the olden days, you'd just go and start your car and then go back into the house and finish your cup of tea. | 15:57 |
| CTtpollard | rjek: how English of you | 15:58 |
| FelixH | rjek: even with a gasoline car your 12V battery can die if you don't use it for a long time and let it connected | 15:58 |
| rjek | Sure, but not using something for a long time also suggests you don't need to wake it up very often, and we've probably already wasted more time discussing how to make this very slightly easier than will ever be saved :) | 15:58 |
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| FelixH | rjek: I don't say the opposite, but if you have a change of plan that can be a cool feature to be able to wakeup your car before you arrive | 16:00 |
| rjek | Coolness does not imply greatness of idea :) | 16:01 |
| * rjek goes home and plans on consuming the hottest curry he can source. | 16:02 | |
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| * waltminer is back from Ireland | 16:30 | |
| waltminer | Congrats to paulsherwood who made the front page of lwn’s weekly edition | 16:31 |
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| jlrmagnus | https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/our-can-bus-firewall-coming-along-nicely-magnus-feuer | 20:07 |
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