IRC logs for #automotive for Tuesday, 2015-09-15

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jeremiahIs Walt Miner around?07:56
CTtpollardhi jeremiah07:56
jeremiahwaltminer: Are you here? I've heard you're on vacation, nice!07:56
CTtpollardhe's not in the channel list07:57
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dzenhi there. I'm looking for an RFC about the can dbc file. Does anyone have some good lectures ? I'm not found of documentation08:28
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Figurepaulsherwood: from boot time perspective busybox would be the fastest.10:50
Figurealso from the memory footprint of busybox is smallest10:50
Figurebut I guess for most use cases systemd makes sense10:51
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paulsherwoodFigure: i'm not sure about the boot speed argument, actually, for full ivi systems at least11:08
paulsherwoodlots of stuff needs to be started, with lots of interdepends... systemd is very good at that11:08
KlausUhlpaulsherwood: the problem is the early stuff that needs to be up quickly (if you don't want to do that in kernel space). It is not clear - at least for us - if systemd is fast enough for that.11:10
KlausUhlsystemd is definitely a very good solution for the rest11:11
paulsherwoodKlausUhl: ack. we've adopted some trickery on projects for the early stuff :)11:11
KlausUhlthe same for us :)11:12
KlausUhlbut we also would like to get rid of it11:12
KlausUhlone reason being that it is non-trivial to integrate into yocto11:12
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paulsherwoodKlausUhl: get rid of systemd?11:19
radiofree-1million actually11:29
KlausUhlpaulsherwood: sorry, my statement was a bit imprecise. With "it" I have been referring to the trickery, not systemd.11:37
KlausUhlSo no, we do not want to get rid of systemd.11:37
KlausUhlWe want to get rid of the trickery.11:37
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paulsherwoodack :)11:41
jeremiahFigure: Do you have any data to back up the claim that busybox is faster in boot time than systemd? Boot charts for example?11:43
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jeremiahKlausUhl: I think there ought to be a way to discuss this kind of 'fastboot' trickery and (hopefully) standardization no?11:47
jeremiahKlausUhl: Or do you think things are tied to specific hardware?11:48
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KlausUhljeremiah: I do not see any hardware specifics here so there should be a way to standardize fastboot (and maybe integrate the recommendation into the GENIVI compliance specification, NSM, etc.)11:54
KlausUhljeremiah: there are, however, some hardware speicific things that influence the timing during startup11:55
KlausUhljeremiah: but those should only change the amount of time that remains between the start of Linux user space (e.g. systemd) and the fastboot time target11:56
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Figurejeremiah: less code means it's faster12:41
Figurejeremiah: I've seen 700ms to opengl application from reset it was using busybox12:42
Figureif I recall correctly systemd requires udev busybox has much simpler implementation from dev12:42
Figurepaulsherwood: yes true it depends how you define the boot time. any how boot time is something that should be considered when designing the system. E.g. bring up the ui before the services and load the services in background12:43
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jeremiahFigure: Less code does not mean faster always. Parellization means faster.13:27
jeremiah700 ms to OpenGL sounds great.13:29
jeremiahBut I know that there are implementations out there for rear view camera that are < 250 ms done with a framebuffer.13:29
jeremiahSo I think its use case that matters.13:30
jeremiahI've seen systemd bring up everything after the kernel in 1 second13:30
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fredcadetein my opinion I expecto to save more time by using systemd when setting up complex unit dependencies, watchdogs, or even sandboxing, than the time needed to implement edge cases like rear view camera13:56
fredcadetedeveloper time, I mean13:57
fredcadetethen with that developer time I buy more optimizations13:57
fredcadeteand get boot time13:57
fredcadeteit's a perfect plan, can't fail13:57
CTtpollardHi jeremiah, who has access to;a=summary ?14:01
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CTtpollardsorry for the disconnects14:28
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jeremiahCTtpollard: I'll check, I can easily add you if needed. :-)15:00
jeremiahSorry for the late reply15:00
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jeremiahCTtpollard: The Network EG in GENIVI is the access group for the browser PoC15:05
jeremiahIf you would like to patch the browser poc I'm sure that granting you access would be a good approach, let me know if that works for you.15:06
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CTtpollardjeremiah: sorry I've been having network woes, the patch is only changing one line, if others think an append in genivi-demo is good enough then I'm ok with either option15:10
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