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marcomentor | /me waves hello | 06:49 |
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marcomentor | ping marcomentor | 06:50 |
marcomentor | whois marcomentor | 06:51 |
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jeremiah | rjek: You're warming a rodent? | 08:43 |
jeremiah | Ah, now I read the backlog and it is perfectly logical. | 08:44 |
jeremiah | marcomentor: Is that you Gianpaolo? | 08:44 |
rjek | jeremiah: :) | 08:46 |
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jeremiah | /c/c | 08:55 |
jeremiah | wee! | 08:55 |
* rjek looks at jeremiah. | 08:56 | |
paulsherwood | whoever it was, he/she is no longer here? | 08:58 |
rjek | inetnum: 62.154.245.64 - 62.154.245.79 | 09:00 |
rjek | netname: XS-EMBEDDED-VILLININGEN-SCHWENNINGEN-NET2 | 09:00 |
rjek | descr: XS Embedded GmbH | 09:00 |
CTtpollard | ughh someone posted re the common api error in meta-ivi for gdp on the mailing list | 09:01 |
jeremiah | Oh! I bet that was Marco Residori then. :-) | 09:01 |
jeremiah | I.e. the Villiningen IP | 09:01 |
jeremiah | CTtpollard: Why ughh? | 09:02 |
CTtpollard | jeremiah: because we still don't have a solution | 09:02 |
jeremiah | Ah! | 09:03 |
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jeremiah | This is a bit of a problem with meta-ivi, the lack of maintenance. | 09:03 |
jeremiah | There are some patches that are rotting on the mailing list as well. | 09:03 |
jeremiah | I plan to bring this up at today's PMO meeting. | 09:03 |
jeremiah | CTtpollard: Do we have a bug number in bugzilla? I want to add it to my email. | 09:08 |
* jeremiah goes to query the 'zilla. | 09:08 | |
CTtpollard | jeremiah: my post on the mailing list has everything you should need | 09:08 |
jeremiah | CTtpollard: Cool, thanks. | 09:09 |
CTtpollard | jeremiah: http://lists.genivi.org/pipermail/genivi-projects/2015-August/000688.html | 09:09 |
jeremiah | Thanks, I just read that. | 09:11 |
jeremiah | What about us creating a mirror/branch of the Yocto meta-ivi repo in GENIVI's git repos and patch it there? | 09:12 |
jeremiah | Is that a lot of work then to build meta-ivi? | 09:12 |
jeremiah | This way we don't have to wait for the meta-ivi maintainer to come back. | 09:12 |
paulsherwood | jeremiah: i've proposed that approach at AGL... problem is it opens up the no-forking debate | 09:12 |
CTtpollard | mirroring is an option, but there's been a lot of talk on how we don't want to fork upstream | 09:12 |
jeremiah | But creating local branch is not forking | 09:13 |
paulsherwood | jeremiah: i agree | 09:14 |
paulsherwood | except that in practice, it leads to it | 09:14 |
paulsherwood | (given how folks use bb in practice... iiuc) | 09:14 |
paulsherwood | case in point... | 09:14 |
paulsherwood | stephen does work on a local branch at https://github.com/slawr/meta-renesas | 09:15 |
paulsherwood | then in practice, folks start building on that | 09:15 |
paulsherwood | result he is an upstream | 09:15 |
jeremiah | Okay. | 09:16 |
paulsherwood | distinct from the two other upstreams of meta-renesas | 09:16 |
paulsherwood | nobody intends to fork, but reality conspires against us | 09:16 |
jeremiah | But the fork occurs not when the git repo moves around, since git is designed to distribute | 09:16 |
jeremiah | The fork occurs when you move support somewhere else. | 09:16 |
jeremiah | If we intend to send patches up to master, then we're not forking | 09:17 |
paulsherwood | ack | 09:17 |
jeremiah | But I agree with your careful reading | 09:18 |
jeremiah | of the situation | 09:18 |
paulsherwood | in a way the flexibility of bb leads to implicit forking... and we only realize later | 09:18 |
jeremiah | I'll bring it up anyway and let's see if we can get some movement from the meta-ivi maintainers because it shouldn't turn into a blocker. | 09:18 |
paulsherwood | jeremiah: to be clear i'm in favour of creating a meta-ivi mirror and doing work there | 09:20 |
paulsherwood | if you agree, and we do it nowish, it would help us make some progress i think | 09:20 |
jeremiah | I agree, I think we need to bring it up in PMO today for transparency's sake, but I also agree it has to be done nowish. | 09:22 |
jeremiah | Can it wait until later today or tomorrow? | 09:23 |
jeremiah | I can create the repo so there will be no wait on that, but I don't want to NMU (if you no what I mean) because that might feel like hijacking. | 09:24 |
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jeremiah | This only affects the x86_64/QEMU version of GDP, right? | 09:36 |
CTtpollard | nope all of them | 09:36 |
CTtpollard | they all use meta-ivi | 09:36 |
jeremiah | Eew. | 09:37 |
jeremiah | Okay | 09:37 |
jeremiah | Sent the mail, hopefully we get to it in today's PMO meeting. | 09:53 |
CTtpollard | thanks jeremiah | 09:55 |
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paulsherwood | +1 | 10:05 |
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jeremiah | Its on the agenda for today. | 12:11 |
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jeremiah | I've also explicitly mentioned the need for fast action on the patches and the request to create a branch for patching which will then get pushed back upstream to master when we have a maintainer. | 12:17 |
paulsherwood | cool! | 12:22 |
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jeremiah | Eww. meta-ivi skipping certificate checks when downloading? Why? They were put there for a reason. | 12:27 |
jeremiah | wget -t 2 -T 30 -nv --passive-ftp --no-check-certificate <-- from a yocto log | 12:27 |
paulsherwood | jeremiah: i do wonder why this stuff is in 'recipes' at all... | 12:28 |
fredcadete | which package is that? | 12:29 |
paulsherwood | if i want to build something reliably, my build instructions should not include '... go to the internet and get a load of stuff' | 12:29 |
fredcadete | paulsherwood: what's your opinion on maven? | 12:31 |
paulsherwood | fredcadete: i confess i have not used it, can barely spell it | 12:31 |
fredcadete | paulsherwood: you are in luck | 12:32 |
paulsherwood | heh | 12:38 |
paulsherwood | is it java? | 12:38 |
fredcadete | yes | 12:44 |
paulsherwood | :) | 12:44 |
KlausUhl | fredcadete: do you have problems with maven? | 12:45 |
fredcadete | not specifically | 12:46 |
fredcadete | it's just that in general maven buildsystems download the whole internet to compile one tool | 12:47 |
KlausUhl | :-) | 12:47 |
fredcadete | like yocto on steroids | 12:47 |
KlausUhl | That's a nice description of what Maven does. | 12:47 |
KlausUhl | But it caches what it has downloaded locally. | 12:48 |
KlausUhl | And you can force it to work offline. | 12:48 |
KlausUhl | If you want to go crazy (or are just fed up with a slow internet connection) you can also install a local mirror to do the caching for you. | 12:49 |
fredcadete | yeah, I guess it does what it does well enough | 12:50 |
fredcadete | and it's probably very handy as a developer to have all those libraries | 12:51 |
KlausUhl | Indeed. But it is a hell to configure. | 12:51 |
fredcadete | but as a user when I have to compile such a thing I always shed a few tears | 12:51 |
fredcadete | I guess it's the same feeling people have with yocto the first time they run a build | 12:52 |
KlausUhl | Probably. But on the other hand you do not need to reiterate trying to compile something just to realize that some (devel) package is not installed on your system. | 12:52 |
fredcadete | as with autoconf, you mean? | 12:53 |
fredcadete | yeah | 12:53 |
KlausUhl | yes | 12:53 |
KlausUhl | or any other C/C++ | 12:53 |
KlausUhl | build system | 12:53 |
fredcadete | yes | 12:54 |
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fredcadete | but with the C/C++ ones I have stockholm syndrome | 12:54 |
fredcadete | whereas with maven it's too foreign | 12:54 |
KlausUhl | Oh, there is a simple cure for that: | 12:55 |
KlausUhl | just develop some medium sized Java project for a few months :-) | 12:56 |
KlausUhl | if you also throw in some Eclipse plug-in development you will think that hell is a comfortable place to stay | 12:57 |
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waltminer | good morning | 13:19 |
waltminer | Just read through the meta-ivi convo and I +1 the meta-ivi mirror idea | 13:19 |
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CTtpollard | instead of using patching bb.append in gdp? | 13:21 |
paulsherwood | waltminer: would agl folks be interested in re-using the same mirror (if patches are required for agl), to avoid further proliferation? | 13:24 |
jeremiah | fredcadete: I think it was in CommonAPI | 13:24 |
jeremiah | lol, Maven? | 13:25 |
jeremiah | A cesspool | 13:25 |
paulsherwood | jeremiah: let's keep it polite, here :) | 13:25 |
jeremiah | Oh, my bad. | 13:25 |
jeremiah | I though we were discussing plumbing . . . | 13:25 |
paulsherwood | lol | 13:25 |
paulsherwood | software is hard, and most of it is somebody's baby... never pays to call someone's baby ugly :) | 13:26 |
jeremiah | So true. | 13:26 |
* paulsherwood has learned this the hard way :) | 13:26 | |
jeremiah | Then again, Maven has been known to be somewhat liberal with licenses. | 13:26 |
jeremiah | Perhaps too liberal in some cases. | 13:26 |
waltminer | I don’t see why not since meta-ivi is GENIVI’s. The patches AGL would do we be to propose moving things out of meta-ivi and into meta-ivi-common. This would seem to be the “polite” place to make such a proposal | 13:27 |
paulsherwood | +1 | 13:27 |
paulsherwood | with the clear understanding that the aim is to work with upstream | 13:28 |
jeremiah | As long as there is a maintainer or two I don't see any issue. | 13:28 |
waltminer | always | 13:28 |
paulsherwood | waltminer: what is happening about further meetings? | 13:31 |
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paulsherwood | (agl meetings... are they to be at a different time now?) | 13:32 |
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fredcadete | regarding the meta-ivi woes, please don't rush a fork. It may be necessary in the end but if it's just for integration issues that's what bbappends are for. I say this as a user: forks are confusing | 13:36 |
paulsherwood | fredcadete: i don't think anyone wants to fork... we're just suggesting a mirror to allow progress preparing patches for upstream (iiuc) | 13:41 |
fredcadete | a mirror has the exact same contents as the source | 13:42 |
fredcadete | the moment you put a patch on top it's called a fork :) | 13:42 |
fredcadete | but yes, I get where the need is coming from | 13:42 |
fredcadete | but let's remember that last week people were surprised that gunnar's gdp-submodules were using a fork of meta-something (meta-ivi or meta-renesas, I don't remember) | 13:43 |
paulsherwood | fredcadete: we discussed this somewhat already... and i fear that bbappends achieve exactly the same effect, but hide it :) | 13:44 |
CTtpollard | ivi | 13:44 |
fredcadete | just the same way downstream users will be surprised that one working group of Genivi is forking another working group's repository | 13:44 |
paulsherwood | but this is a complex topic | 13:44 |
fredcadete | +1 on the complexity | 13:45 |
paulsherwood | not on the proposed mirror, i guess :) | 13:45 |
fredcadete | no :) but that's just my opinion. And my opinion is worth much less than actual work done | 13:46 |
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paulsherwood | PMO seems to be deciding not to make a mirror for the moment, so CTtpollard should go ahead and figure a bbappends stopgap | 14:02 |
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CTtpollard | paulsherwood: ack | 14:09 |
waltminer | when does a patch become a “fork”? Let’s assume that some package will need to be patched by GENIVI or AGL. They need to keep that patch somewhere until it is accepted upstream. Since that process can take time where would the patch or patches live if there is no common place to put them ? | 14:09 |
CTtpollard | paulsherwood: a commit on master, or a branch with stopgap fixes on? | 14:11 |
waltminer | You need to balance that with the pain of keeping the patches in sync with upstream. I don’t think it is a fork until you recognize that you cannot get your patch into the mainline for the project and it is too difficult keep the patch current with the mainline. | 14:11 |
waltminer | and you absolutely cannot live without the functionality of the patch | 14:11 |
paulsherwood | waltminer: that's my point exactly. hence i'm strongly in favour of having a mirror with our proposed patches | 14:15 |
* paulsherwood seems unable to convince others of this, though (and the disagreement appears to be from both engineers and non-engineers), so may still be wrong | 14:16 | |
waltminer | I am ok with a non-mirror solution if someone could put it on paper, but I would like to understand the thought process and how to account for all of the use cases. | 14:18 |
paulsherwood | CTtpollard: which would you prefer to do? both seem less than ideal to me :) | 14:18 |
waltminer | then again. I am not GENIVI | 14:18 |
waltminer | :) | 14:18 |
paulsherwood | waltminer: you are not. but we have similar situations in AGL i think | 14:18 |
CTtpollard | paulsherwood: master for less friction | 14:18 |
paulsherwood | CTtpollard: go for it. annotate the commit clearly to explain why. and preferably post it to the ML so folks can +1 it | 14:19 |
paulsherwood | (or -1, if they are so inclined :-) | 14:19 |
waltminer | we do. AFAIK we will use a mirrors. | 14:20 |
paulsherwood | even to the extent of mirroring genivi software if that were required to expedite progress? (sorry to be provocative, but if the answer is yes, i may notify the PMO that this is the case) | 14:23 |
waltminer | and some smoke and a warmed up mouse | 14:23 |
waltminer | yes | 14:24 |
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jlrmagnus | Morning | 14:55 |
paulsherwood | howdie | 14:56 |
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CTtpollard | fredcadete: I'm trying to create the append file for a patch but I'm struggling to find good documentation | 15:46 |
paulsherwood | CTtpollard: i assume http://www.yoctoproject.org/docs/1.6/dev-manual/dev-manual.html#using-bbappend-files is not enough? | 15:48 |
fredcadete | the yocto manual is fairly good | 15:48 |
fredcadete | any specific problem CTtpollard ? | 15:49 |
CTtpollard | I can't find how to use the append to remove variables | 15:50 |
fredcadete | the language itself is documented in http://www.yoctoproject.org/docs/1.6/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual.html | 15:50 |
CTtpollard | to remove the PR variable as the patch does http://git.yoctoproject.org/cgit/cgit.cgi/meta-ivi/commit/?id=e56917139ed15a8cba2a78ba7e31eeffd439c75c | 15:50 |
fredcadete | this is the closest thing I found: http://www.yoctoproject.org/docs/1.6/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual.html#removing-override-style-syntax but I think it would leave you with an empty variable. For most uses it should be the same thing | 15:52 |
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fredcadete | you could also do PR="", it'll lead to the same thing | 15:55 |
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fredcadete | I'll have to go now | 15:57 |
fredcadete | see you tomorrow | 15:57 |
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CTtpollard | ahh he's gone, will say thanks tomorrow | 16:04 |
jonathanmaw | I've learned an important lesson while trying to crowbar AudioManager into meta-agl, DISTRO_FEATURES specifies whether you use sysvinit or systemd, so a meta-agl system which uses systemd ought to be using the distro poky-ivi-systemd (from meta-ivi) | 16:10 |
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paulsherwood | CTtpollard: I would add +1 on a .bbappend inside GDP as a quick stopgap. It can | 16:27 |
paulsherwood | (will) disappear when GDP is upgraded to a later baseline version anyhow. | 16:27 |
paulsherwood | would it make sense to do that upgrade and be done? | 16:28 |
paulsherwood | (sorry, unclear... i'm quoting gunnar's email) | 16:28 |
CTtpollard | upgrade to a 8.0 baseline? | 16:28 |
CTtpollard | I'm currently building with an append in place, I will have the results from it tomorrow | 16:29 |
paulsherwood | CTtpollard: yes, i was asking about upgrading to current baseling. seems pretty poor form not to | 16:30 |
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CTtpollard | upgrading to 8.0 bring in the fix, it is just then making sure it builds and works with the other upgrades | 16:30 |
paulsherwood | perhaps. unless there is other mess | 16:30 |
paulsherwood | but i would try it, at least. | 16:31 |
CTtpollard | 6.1 - 6.2 audiomanager for example | 16:31 |
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CTtpollard | how much of that is just a drop in place upgrade it unknown to me at this point | 16:36 |
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