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| petefoth | The build I left running last night failed with this http://paste.baserock.org/ibasatifat . When I restarted it this morning, it got on with building chunk stage2-glibc. Any ideas what may have caused the failure? The VM uses the WiFi adapter on the host - would that going down cause the failure? | 07:34 |
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| paulsherwood | petefoth: was this *after* getting everything cached? | 08:28 |
| paulsherwood | that looks like your vm didn't have connectivity, which i know is what you are trying to test | 08:29 |
| petefoth | paulsherwood: no - it's the build that is pulling everything in | 08:29 |
| petefoth | I left it to cook last night, and it fell over 45 minutes after I left :) | 08:30 |
| paulsherwood | weird, thn | 08:30 |
| paulsherwood | if you re-run, same problem? | 08:30 |
| petefoth | paulsherwood: no it's runnign fine now, so I guess a break in connectivity when it was trying to clone was what lkilled it | 08:31 |
| petefoth | btw - to ''tweak stage1-binutils.morph' i started by doing `morph branch baserock:baserock/definitions my-new-system' then editing stage1-binutils.morph. Was the git branch necessary or is there an easier way (such as morph edit baserock:baserock/definitions' or...? | 08:34 |
| radiofree | Is morph branch the correct way to do things? I always just morph checkout ... And work mostly using git | 08:36 |
| petefoth | radiofree: I have no idea :) I'dlike tio find out for the sake of getting the 'Working with BAserock offline' story straight | 08:38 |
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| radiofree | petefoth: i can't remember the last time i actually used morph branch... however maybe there's a reason i should be using it? | 08:39 |
| radiofree | i tend to just morph check master, cd into definitions, then if i wanted to "tweak stage1-binutils.morph" i'll just git checkout -b james/wip and mess about there | 08:40 |
| petefoth | radiofree: I guess that would do it | 08:40 |
| paulsherwood | the trouble with morph checkout master, is that later morph edit foo can break, because it will try to create a branch master for foo | 08:42 |
| paulsherwood | i have once-and-for-all done 'morph branch b:b:d reference ; cd reference/b/b/d' then i use normal git process in my reference branch (eg git fetcg, git reset --hard origin/master) | 08:43 |
| petefoth | so starting with 'morph branch' will avoid that problem? | 08:43 |
| petefoth | paulsherwood: thanks | 08:44 |
| paulsherwood | np | 08:44 |
| paulsherwood | i should make a tutorial on this too, i guess | 08:44 |
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| petefoth | The UI BoF at the meetup asked for 'How I use Baserock' stories - your story would be very useful I think | 08:45 |
| paulsherwood | i stayed out of the UI conf... i'm a commandline guy these days :) | 08:50 |
| petefoth | paulsherwood: command line *is* a UI - just not a G one :) | 08:50 |
| paulsherwood | as radiofree famously said in a meeting once 'our ui *is* the commandline' :) | 08:51 |
| jjardon | I too have used morph checkout, morph branch exactly one time: what are the benefits of using them? Is there any docs where I can take a look? | 08:54 |
| petefoth | paulsherwood: how do you go about updating the local clones of the git repos? Do you use 'morph for-each'? | 08:56 |
| paulsherwood | petefoth: first issue is to enusre you actually have the git clones of the repos | 08:57 |
| paulsherwood | sorry, i can't help on this now | 08:58 |
| petefoth | paulsherwood: np | 08:58 |
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| * straycat thought we were going to get rid of morph checkout/branch and just let people use git for that stuff | 09:19 | |
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| wdutch | I've submitted a patch to lorries which hassn't got 2 +1s yet but I've noticed a couple of mistakes, should I patch that patch or patch from current HEAD? | 09:50 |
| Kinnison | follow up the thread indicating you're -1ing your own patch | 09:51 |
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| Kinnison | then provide a new patch series which has been corrected | 09:51 |
| Kinnison | (is how I'd do it) | 09:51 |
| wdutch | okay thanks | 09:55 |
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| richard_maw | systemd will optionally depend on libacl, which we currently have in foundation, but not as a dependency of systemd. Unfortunately systemd wants to be able to make shared objects, which doesn't work because libacl hasn't been compiled to produce shared objects, or build the .a files with -fPIC | 11:24 |
| paulsherwood | straycat: yup, we were/are. but it's quite a big change, i think... removal of workspace, and documenting the result properly | 11:25 |
| * straycat nods | 11:26 | |
| * richard_maw discovered the libacl problem when rebuilding systemd so he could add more debugging information | 11:27 | |
| * richard_maw continued with --disable-acl | 11:28 | |
| pedroalvarez | I had to use --disable-acl in libarchive too | 11:30 |
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| jjardon | richard_maw: whats the context? Or you mention that as an informative comment? | 11:50 |
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| richard_maw | mostly informative, though if I have time tomorrow, I'm going to have a poke at it | 11:51 |
| richard_maw | we currently only intentionally use it for btrfs-progs, which is fine, as it doesn't require a shared object there | 11:51 |
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| simonh_ | Hi, can someone from the Baserock ops trigger a sync of the lorries? I'd like to use the openwrt lorries that have just been added. | 12:14 |
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| persia | mauricemoss_: There's lots of them: a sync is hard. What you probably want is to have one or more jobs promoted. | 12:19 |
| persia | mauricemoss_: I'd recommend asking for some specific jobs, if you have a list, as that is more likely to be something someone can do. | 12:19 |
| persia | mauricemoss_: http://git.baserock.org/lc-status.html is the current queue | 12:20 |
| pedroalvarez | mauricemoss_: new lorries go to the top of the queue, so they might be lorried already | 12:20 |
| persia | pedroalvarez: Oh, excellent! | 12:21 |
| mauricemoss_ | pedroalvarez: ah nice, ta! | 12:21 |
| pedroalvarez | mauricemoss_: if you find out that some of them are not lorried, poke us and we will investigate | 12:22 |
| bashrc_ | is the definitions format going to change? | 12:23 |
| pedroalvarez | I think there is an ongoing discussion about it; Yes | 12:25 |
| bashrc_ | well, I hope it's not going to xml | 12:26 |
| radiofree | you don't have to worry abou tthat | 12:28 |
| bashrc_ | :) | 12:28 |
| tiagogomes_ | I think that new lorries don't go to the top, at least they didn't 1/2 months ago | 12:29 |
| ssam2 | no, it'd be good if they did. would need someone to make a change to lorry-controller | 12:30 |
| pedroalvarez | tiagogomes_: new lorries go to the top. Lorry changes (modify an exsisting lorry) may not | 12:33 |
| tiagogomes_ | pedroalvarez ah, may that then | 12:33 |
| pedroalvarez | but I may be wrong :/ | 12:33 |
| ssam2 | oh, i didn't realise they went to the top | 12:35 |
| ssam2 | i don't see code that'd do that | 12:36 |
| mauricemoss_ | seems like they don't, search for openwrt here: http://git.baserock.org/lc-status.html "in 2 h 2 min" | 12:37 |
| SotK | I think thats because they've already been run once though? | 12:38 |
| SotK | http://git.baserock.org/cgi-bin/cgit.cgi/?q=openwrt | 12:38 |
| mauricemoss_ | Oh, true I had upstream:procd instead of upstream:openwrt/procd in my morph file. | 12:44 |
| jjardon | hi, why baserock fail because there is an error in a system completely different from the one Im trying to build? Is this the intended behaviour? | 12:47 |
| radiofree | could you clarify that a bit? | 12:48 |
| radiofree | oh i think i know what you mean, there's some issue with systems/bar.morph that's being flagged, even though you're trying to build systems/foo.morph? | 12:49 |
| jjardon | nope, I get an error about armv7lhf-cross-toolchain... but Im not building that in my system | 12:50 |
| ssam2 | jjardon: morph parses all morph files when it checks if you have any local changes | 12:50 |
| ssam2 | i think | 12:50 |
| jjardon | oh, ok, so its intended ;) | 12:51 |
| SotK | morph parses all morph files all of the time (in some commands anyway) I think | 12:51 |
| jjardon | is that really what we want? | 12:52 |
| SotK | I don't think so, but others do | 12:52 |
| jjardon | yes, I do not want other to have errors building their systems if I make a mistake in mine | 12:56 |
| ssam2 | we shouldn't have any invalid .morph file in definitions.git | 12:59 |
| ssam2 | once we have pre-merge CI we probably won't have any | 12:59 |
| persia | Well, assuming we CI everything. Current CI is only a subset, isn't it? | 13:00 |
| SotK | yes, but the build will fail if the repo contains any broken definitions | 13:01 |
| jjardon | ssam2: agree, but is still possible. think you have several teams managing different systems. Even if CI detects the problem I do not want to stop working because there is a problem in a system I do not nothing about | 13:03 |
| ssam2 | if it's pre-merge testing, nothing is going to stop you working -- the breakage will never be merged | 13:04 |
| SotK | I just don't like the way that we have the root of a tree (the system morph), and know where to find all the other nodes in the tree (we reference the needed morphologies by path), but ignore that and just load everything in the repo and look through it | 13:15 |
| ssam2 | --local-changes=ignore might bypass that code, I think it's the temporary build branch stuff that does it | 13:16 |
| SotK | ssam2: looks like it does :) | 13:23 |
| ssam2 | constructing this Gerrit system has made me really want components to identify their runtime dependencies in advance | 13:34 |
| ssam2 | lots of small, unexpected issues. like you can't use lorry-controller without the morph-utils stratum because it uses cliapp and cliapp lives in morph-utils | 13:35 |
| gfinney | It doesn't NORMALLY take an age to run the build commands for stage1-gcc does it? | 13:35 |
| SotK | I had a similar experience last year when trying to make a system based off the Genivi baseline with loads of stuff on top | 13:36 |
| SotK | gfinney: how long is the age? :) | 13:36 |
| gfinney | 36mins so far | 13:36 |
| gfinney | This is being run from YBD btw | 13:37 |
| ssam2 | gfinney: building GCC is not a quick operation | 13:37 |
| ssam2 | 36 mins is slower than i'd expect though | 13:38 |
| SotK | 36 minutes doesn't seem too outlandish to me | 13:38 |
| SotK | heh | 13:38 |
| SotK | I've seen it take about that long sometimes, if my system is having a slow day | 13:38 |
| gfinney | I thought so myself, I just don't remember it being quite so slow on previous occasions | 13:38 |
| gfinney | Oh well | 13:38 |
| ssam2 | motivation for you to implement artifact caching in ybd at least :) | 13:38 |
| gfinney | It is implemented, but I cleaned it :( | 13:39 |
| gfinney | It was being odd | 13:39 |
| mauricemoss_ | rdale, I'm still having the `make` segmentation fault problem in a chroot, unfortunately this doesn't help: http://paste.baserock.org/atawenivoc Did you change something additionally? | 14:00 |
| rdale | no that's the script i use | 14:01 |
| straycat | anyone up for bug squashing on saturday? a possible flaw is i'm not sure if there's shared knowledge of what there is to fix | 14:01 |
| bashrc_ | is there a bug list? | 14:02 |
| mauricemoss_ | Hmm weird, I'll copy strace to the chroot. | 14:02 |
| petefoth | https://storyboard.baserock.org/#!/project/list is the bug tracker, which is a start | 14:03 |
| * straycat thought he read something from ssam2 saying not to fill it with issues just yet | 14:06 | |
| ssam2 | it's just that it's not backed up yet | 14:06 |
| petefoth | indeed, but it's nowher near full yet :) | 14:07 |
| straycat | ahh | 14:07 |
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| mauricemoss_ | http://paste.baserock.org/idinucuzev This might be the issue: 'access("/etc/ld.so.preload", R_OK) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)' | 14:17 |
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| bashrc_ | do chunks have an enable flag? | 14:27 |
| pedroalvarez | what for? | 14:28 |
| pedroalvarez | enable or disable the chunk? | 14:28 |
| Kinnison | mauricemoss_: It's rare for ld.so.preload to exist, no? | 14:28 |
| pedroalvarez | bashrc_: if you don't want a chunk in a system, you have to remove from the stratum of that system that is installing it | 14:28 |
| bashrc_ | seems kinda crude | 14:29 |
| bashrc_ | what if you disable some stratum but then want to reenable it a few deployments later? | 14:30 |
| straycat | commit your removal | 14:30 |
| straycat | then revert | 14:30 |
| bashrc_ | I guess so | 14:30 |
| pedroalvarez | I was going to say that | 14:30 |
| tlsa | Kinnison: about 8 months ago, we did a release together, and there was a "pre-release tests" bit of the release process. IIRC you wrote a script for that that checked that all the chunk refs were sha1s and not branches (maybe other checks too), but I can't find any reference to it any more. | 14:46 |
| tlsa | Kinnison: do you still have that script? | 14:47 |
| Kinnison | I think I probably just grepped stuff | 14:47 |
| * Kinnison will look | 14:47 | |
| tlsa | pretty shire you had a script/or python which generated a report | 14:48 |
| tlsa | but I could be wrong :) | 14:48 |
| Kinnison | If there was such a beast it wasn't me | 14:48 |
| tlsa | hmmm, ok | 14:49 |
| mauricemoss_ | Kinnison: True, just learned that. Any idea what could cause the seg fault? | 14:49 |
| Kinnison | Sadly without a bunch more debugging effort I can't suggest a reason -- it's 'make' segfaulting right? What architecture is this? | 14:50 |
| Kinnison | mauricemoss_: do you have ltrace available to you at this point? | 14:51 |
| pedroalvarez | I've seen this in x86_64 | 14:51 |
| Kinnison | pedroalvarez: Okay, so it's not an obscure platform only issue | 14:52 |
| mauricemoss_ | Kinnison, I'm afraid not :( | 14:52 |
| Kinnison | Is this a release version of 'make' or the contents of master or something? | 14:52 |
| pedroalvarez | I believe this is make 4.1 from a tarball lorry. But the issue is not building make, or using make to build other things. The issue is that make can't run in a staging area, segfaulting | 14:55 |
| pedroalvarez | Making it dificult to debug when integrating new software | 14:55 |
| mauricemoss_ | yep, I'm using make 4.1 ref f75919b | 14:55 |
| mauricemoss_ | exactly, I need this integrating some openWrt packages. | 14:56 |
| pedroalvarez | I believe that it used to work before without having to bind-mount some partitions | 14:56 |
| pedroalvarez | Also rdale says that mounting those partitions was enough to make it work | 14:57 |
| pedroalvarez | although you say that it's still not woring | 14:57 |
| mauricemoss_ | rdale, could you post the output of a working `strace make`? | 14:57 |
| Kinnison | make most likely expects things like /proc and /dev to be sane | 14:58 |
| rdale | yes, i've just been trying that - but i'm not seeing it traverse the /dev directory | 14:58 |
| rdale | mauricemoss: http://paste.baserock.org/acutulumud | 14:59 |
| mauricemoss_ | ta! | 15:00 |
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| ssam2 | i've removed mention of pylru from the wiki, now that it's present in the latest release | 16:24 |
| pedroalvarez | makes sense | 16:27 |
| jjardon | some days ago was commented the builds are now faster, but we were not very sure about the cause: is this building a specific chunk or entire systems? | 16:47 |
| jjardon | I said that because I removed the max-jobs:1 from several components when I updated them, the biggest one systemd | 16:48 |
| radiofree | gcc is now much faster to build, i don't know about about systems | 16:51 |
| radiofree | as far as i was aware the only major components that used max-jobs were systemd and qtwebkit? | 16:52 |
| jjardon | ok, so its gcc on its own. Then its probably thanks to tiagogomes_ patches | 16:55 |
| jjardon | radiofree: yeah, systemd and qtwebkit were the big ones | 16:55 |
| radiofree | jjardon: i'm leaning towards that.. i checked the linux from scratch docs and newer versions of gcc tend to be slower to build | 16:58 |
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| jjardon | anyone here know about pam/login? AFAIK debian system uses login binary provided by the shadow package, but other distros uses the "login" that comes with util-linux. Do anyone know what baserock uses? and why? | 16:59 |
| tlsa | http://paste.baserock.org/egebedeyub <-- a few chunks using 'master' as ref and one using a personal branch | 17:01 |
| straycat | how did we miss that | 17:04 |
| tlsa | the tooling didn't check for us | 17:04 |
| pedroalvarez | I'll be really happy once we have these checks pre-merge :) | 17:05 |
| pedroalvarez | tlsa: another requirement, | 17:06 |
| straycat | it did indeed get 2 +1s somehow | 17:07 |
| straycat | *shrug* okay whatever pre-merge check thing would be nice too | 17:08 |
| tlsa | at the moment I'm just making `morph build` report the issues as warnings | 17:09 |
| tlsa | I guess pre-merge check could be added as another test job in mason-v2 | 17:09 |
| tlsa | but I'm not working on that right now | 17:09 |
| * straycat nods | 17:09 | |
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| pedroalvarez | tlsa: I was going to say, that another requirement would be to point to g.b.o in the repo fields | 17:15 |
| pedroalvarez | then tried to remove it, to not bother you with more work, but I failed :) | 17:15 |
| tlsa | pedroalvarez: yep, I need to add repo checking too | 17:16 |
| tlsa | not thought about how yet | 17:16 |
| tlsa | just looking at the python warnings module instead of using print :) | 17:17 |
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| mauricemoss_ | How can I write all the build output to morph.log when using CMake? I tried changing the log-level but that didn't work. | 17:21 |
| rdale | make VERBOSE=1 | 17:21 |
| rdale | and then you need the morph option to write stdout to the log, which i've forgotten | 17:22 |
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| mauricemoss_ | I did the latter but forgot about VERBOSE=1, thanks | 17:24 |
| pedroalvarez | --build-log-on-stdout | 17:30 |
| pedroalvarez | (morph --help) | 17:30 |
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| jjardon | pedroalvarez: is -v and --verbose already taken for other stuff? --build-log-on-stdout seems not very standard | 17:38 |
| nowster | verbose tells you what morph is doing | 17:41 |
| nowster | build-log-on-stdout makes the actual "make" phase visible | 17:41 |
| * paulsherwood would prefer that -v showed the make phase stuff as well, tbh. | 17:42 | |
| paulsherwood | afaik morph is already logging its -v stuff in morph.log, irrespective of the -v switch? | 17:43 |
| ssam2 | me too | 17:43 |
| pedroalvarez | ansible have various levels of verbosity so you can say: -v -vv -vvv or -vvvv | 17:43 |
| ssam2 | build-log-on-stdout is an internal flag used by distbuild, which happens to be actually useful | 17:43 |
| paulsherwood | and so far, in debugging a *lot* of morph builds, i don't think i've gained much insight from the verbose content in morph.log | 17:44 |
| paulsherwood | the build-log output is definitely useful | 17:44 |
| ssam2 | there's still quite some nonsense goes into morph.log. it used to be a lot worse! | 17:45 |
| ssam2 | build-log output doesn't really belong in morph.log, it's chunk metadata | 17:46 |
| * jjardon files a storyboard story | 17:46 | |
| ssam2 | it's bad that we hide build-logs in the artifact cache with no easy way to get to them, though | 17:46 |
| rdale | couldn't you put the build log somewhere in /baserock for a chunk? | 17:47 |
| jjardon | fell free to add more in https://storyboard.baserock.org/#!/story/22 | 17:48 |
| paulsherwood | ssam2: well, ok... so 1) stick the chunk name in the build-log name, so folks have a chance of parsing it by eye, 2) the build log should be provided as an artifact during fetch | 17:48 |
| jjardon | feel* | 17:48 |
| * paulsherwood can't log in to that from here | 17:48 | |
| rdale | ah, "build-log output doesn't really belong in morph.log, it's chunk metadata" +1 | 17:49 |
| paulsherwood | i was requesting it on the visible output, with -v set | 17:50 |
| paulsherwood | morph.log is not much use imo... but maybe i'm missing something | 17:50 |
| straycat | useful to debug morph, less useful to debug builds perhaps | 17:51 |
| rdale | yes | 17:51 |
| ssam2 | paulsherwood: agreed on both | 17:51 |
| * straycat notes that --build-log-on-stdout was only ever meant to be an internal option for distbuild's use | 17:52 | |
| paulsherwood | straycat: i've had to debug a lot of morph. the info i need has not really been in morph.log | 17:52 |
| ssam2 | i've added that comment to storyboard | 17:52 |
| straycat | i guess that doesn't matter though | 17:52 |
| ssam2 | or have I? storyboard's 'click a button and nothing happens' interface is maddening | 17:52 |
| paulsherwood | straycat: understood. my point is that users need the info, and morph doesn't give it by default | 17:52 |
| ssam2 | oh, it appears if I reload the page | 17:52 |
| jjardon | ssam2: use the return key instead | 17:52 |
| paulsherwood | s/users need/users sometimes need/ | 17:52 |
| straycat | paulsherwood, for debugging morph i guess we could be more liberal with logging.debug | 17:53 |
| * jjardon wants an option that shows _everything_ in stdout | 17:53 | |
| straycat | paulsherwood, i agree too, i think i was about to add build-log-on-stdout=True to my morph.conf | 17:54 |
| paulsherwood | jjardon: +1 | 17:54 |
| * jjardon thinking maybe we can use the journald api for this | 17:54 | |
| jjardon | so we can select what exactly we want to see in the log | 17:55 |
| paulsherwood | jjardon: i think this sohuld not depend on systemd | 17:55 |
| perryl | i've noticed there's an issue with the morph version error message displaying incorrectly; can someone give this a quick once over before i send to the ML to check that the error should display properly? http://paste.baserock.org/enohisawuf | 17:55 |
| paulsherwood | but i may be wrong | 17:55 |
| paulsherwood | on ybd, i'm trying to have as few dependencies as possible | 17:55 |
| jjardon | paulsherwood: sure, it can be an optional dep | 17:56 |
| straycat | perryl, imo it might be better to have those values interpolated, just to be consistent with the rest of morph | 17:57 |
| perryl | straycat: interpolated? | 17:58 |
| straycat | 'like %s' % this | 17:58 |
| straycat | * 'this' | 17:58 |
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| perryl | i must have done it wrong in the reason, as the output the current message gives is "ERROR: Failed to build baserock:baserock/definitions 5e09ce28da6bddfc75661837058743447474f185 systems/build-system-x86_64-chroot.morph: ['Protocol version mismatch between server & initiator: distbuild network uses distbuild protocol version %i, but client uses version %i.', 1, None] | 17:58 |
| perryl | probably the commas actually! | 17:59 |
| ssam2 | yes, you have to use % | 17:59 |
| ssam2 | /except/ some functions will collect all arguments after the first one and pass them to % for you | 18:00 |
| ssam2 | logging.debug(), info(), error() etc. do this | 18:00 |
| ssam2 | which is nice, but a source of confusion | 18:00 |
| perryl | i think this is just a custom message construct as opposed to logging.* | 18:01 |
| ssam2 | yeah, which is why the interpolation wasn't happening | 18:02 |
| * perryl shall give it another look in the morning and send the patch on a fresh mind | 18:02 | |
| ssam2 | morph ./check fails in master of the reference systems on 'morph foreach runs command in each git repo' yarn, I'm guessing it's due to the busybox upgrade | 18:03 |
| ssam2 | I mention it here because I don't have time to fix it (although I could send a patch to remove it, I guess workspaces are going the way of the dodo anyway) | 18:03 |
| jjardon | ok, so I guess baserock uses the shadow login because is build after util-linux, rigth? | 18:03 |
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| * jjardon will try to find the differences between the "login" command shipped with shadow and the one from util-linux | 18:05 | |
| jjardon | AFAIK, debian/ubuntu usees the one from shadow, but Arch uses the one from util-linux | 18:05 |
| jjardon | richard_maw: coincidentally I found an issue building tar today because a bug in acl! (fixed in curent acl master) | 18:07 |
| straycat | so -v would be just an alias for --build-log-on-stdout or an alias for --verbose --log-level=DEBUG --build-log-on-stdout, or something inbetween? | 18:09 |
| ssam2 | i'd like it if -v did what it does now, but also output the build logs | 18:10 |
| jjardon | Id say it should be what normally -v means: "show me all the info in stdout", wherever that means in implementation level | 18:11 |
| ssam2 | you definitely don't want *all* the info :) | 18:12 |
| ssam2 | try --log=/dev/stdout sometime | 18:12 |
| * jjardon scared now :) | 18:12 | |
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| * pedroalvarez likes ansible verbosity levels (-v -vv -vvv -vvvv) | 18:13 | |
| straycat | part of me thinks that if we expect the user to want the build logs on stdout by default then it might be better to put the option that enables that in the example morph.conf, that way people don't need to type -v all the time, or just make it default in morph | 18:14 |
| jjardon | pedroalvarez: yes, that's quite standard as well (try lspci -vvvv, for example) | 18:15 |
| jjardon | straycat: +1 | 18:15 |
| pedroalvarez | jjardon: oh! then more reasons to follow something similar? | 18:16 |
| jjardon | Yep | 18:17 |
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| paulsherwood | i'd be happier to type -v for the extra output, than have to type something else to turn it off. | 20:40 |
| straycat | i think it's fair for it to be configurable | 21:03 |
| straycat | i need to make it as few characters as possible, in fact morph build is about to be aliased to 'mb' | 21:04 |
| straycat | maybe just j | 21:04 |
| straycat | j and k | 21:04 |
| straycat | (so i'm in support of everything, fwiw) | 21:05 |
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| * paulsherwood wonders what's up with the mason connection to gbo | 23:47 | |
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