IRC logs for #baserock for Wednesday, 2015-02-25

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SotKhmm, so I'm running a sysroot deployment with my OSTree branch and getting loads of complaints from mv ("Invalid argument" and "Directory not empty")08:34
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SotKIts also slow, but that is probably due to IO issues on the box my VM is running on08:34
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richard_mawdirectory not empty is probably from calls to rmdir09:02
richard_mawI can't think of any reason why you'd get EINVAL09:03
richard_mawtry running the mv commands through strace, or use stuff from shutil?09:03
richard_mawat least then you ought to get better error messages09:03
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mauricemoss_I was running the native-bootstrap again with the latest Morph on MIPS for verification and got this: http://paste.baserock.org/bopihexawo Should git://git.baserock.org/delta/python-packages/pylru be added to cross-bootstrap.morph? It finished with the old Morph without errors.10:12
ssam2mauricemoss_: new morph does indeed need pylry10:13
ssam2pylru10:13
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ssam2mauricemoss_: however, it seems to me that strata/cross-bootstrap.morph is duplicating a whole lot of strata/morph-units.morph10:15
ssam2I think that was done in the past when 'morph' was in the 'tools' stratum and we wanted to avoid building the whole of 'tools' during a cross-bootstrap10:16
ssam2but now there's a morph-utils stratum you could just include it in the system you're bootstrapping, and remove all the duplicated chunks from cross-bootstrap.morph10:16
mauricemoss_ok ssam2, I'll have a look.10:17
tiagogomes_that needs to be done for every croosboot-strap system10:18
tiagogomes_currently probably they will fail due not having 'six' anymore in the cross-bootstrap systems, even if the morph's ref doesn't include pulry10:19
mauricemoss_I think this should fix the issue. I missing the big picture in order to say how to move stratums, though.10:20
mauricemoss_http://paste.baserock.org/otobohavas10:20
ssam2mauricemoss_: that looks like it'll fix the issue indeed10:20
ssam2to get an idea of the bigger picture, perhaps compare the list of chunks in morph-utils.morph with the chunks in cross-bootstrap.morph and see how many of them overlap10:21
franredtiagogomes_, six is in python-core so you can add that stratum to the croosboot-strap dependencies10:22
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pedroalvarezmauricemoss_: morph nesss pylru as a 'build-depends'10:23
pedroalvareznesss? need10:23
pedroalvarez+s10:24
mauricemoss_true, ta pedroalvarez10:24
ssam2adding it as a build dependency is good, it also needs to be added to the list of strata in the actual cross-bootstrap system so that it's present at runtime10:27
ssam2same with morph-utils10:27
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mauricemoss_flup, bottle and git-fat  are missing in the cross-bootstrap.morph10:41
ssam2right. so everything from morph-utils is duplicated in cross-bootstrap except for 3 (fairly small) components10:42
radiofreerdale: morning!10:48
radiofreeare sinatra, gabba things you can import with the ruby gem importer?10:48
rdalemorning10:48
rdaleyes if gabba is a gem10:49
ssam2sinatra you can, there are even instructions10:49
radiofreegreat, thanks10:49
rdaleis that 'gabba, gabba hey!'?10:49
radiofreeit must be named after that10:50
radiofreewas sinatra developed by frank?10:50
DavePage"Frank Sinatra (chairman of the board) for having so much class he deserves a web-framework named after him." http://www.sinatrarb.com/about.html10:51
radiofreehah10:52
radiofreesmall question about openstack, do we have a baserock system with Keystone, Nova and Glance?11:02
radiofreeand Horizon?11:02
pedroalvarezradiofree: without neutron?11:03
pedroalvarezand why horizon?11:04
radiofreenetwork is optional11:04
radiofreeneutron = networking right?11:04
straycatyeah11:05
radiofreei'm looking at cloud foundry, there guides give deployment instructions using an openstack web gui, which i've been told was horizon?11:05
radiofrees/there/their11:05
franredradiofree, yes, the openstack web ui is horizon11:07
franredradiofree, is network optional or they are using the old nova-networking?11:07
radiofreefranred: i suppose it's possible to configure stuff without using that though?11:07
franredradiofree, yes, you don't need horizon to configure anything11:08
radiofreeit's a bit confusing, "(Optional) OpenStack Networking: Provides network scaling and automated management functions that are useful when deploying complex distributed systems. "11:08
radiofreeas an openstack service11:08
radiofreehowever the next step then says "The following OpenStack networks:"11:09
radiofree'An external network with a subnet'...11:09
mauricemoss_ssam2, I think this fix should be enough: http://paste.baserock.org/awuvususuc Why should Morph be present at runtime when running './native-bootstrap'?11:09
radiofreeso we have neutron in there anyway?11:09
franredradiofree, so you either need neutron or nova-networking11:09
radiofreewhich is the one in either Havana, Icehouse or Juno?11:09
radiofree(which release do we have in baserock?)11:10
franredradiofree, we are using Juno, tag 2014.2.111:10
franredand we are using neutron to configure the networking11:10
radiofreeok, so i guess we meet all the requirements then11:10
franredwe also expect to have horizon soon..ish11:10
radiofreewonderful!11:11
radiofreedo we have cinder?11:12
franredyes, cinder is integrated too11:12
franredradiofree, but we are at the moment trying to stabilize openstack system11:13
radiofreeok thanks for the help11:14
pedroalvarezmauricemoss_: Morph doesn't need to be present at runtime AFAIK11:16
pedroalvarezmauricemoss_: adding Morph (and its dependencies) to the cross-bootstrap.morph system, will make ./native-bootstrap to build it, so you end up with a system with Morph installed11:16
mauricemoss_ok, that's what I thought. I'd rather avoid building everything from scratch because it will take around ~27h for MIPS and it finished without an error with the old Morph.11:18
pedroalvarezmauricemoss_: It shouldn't rebuild everything, but I agree. You can try to install manually pylru, remove everything that has been installed from ./native-bootstrap script, and continue11:22
pedroalvarezs/continue/run again .\/native-boostrap/11:22
pedroalvarezsame for bottle and flup if they are needed11:23
pedroalvarezmauricemoss_: btw, typo in your latest paste: s/bootle/bottle/g11:23
mauricemoss_ta11:28
pedroalvarezmauricemoss_: let me know if you need more help with this. I've had a lot of fun with cross-bootstrap in the past11:33
ssam2mauricemoss_: sorry, I think I've not been clear11:37
ssam2bottle, and flup aren't needed during cross-bootstrap at all11:37
ssam2my point was that duplication is bad, and the cross-bootstrap stratum almost completely duplicates the morph-utils stratum11:38
ssam2so my suggestion was that if you had time to clean up the crossbootstrap process, you could remove everything from cross-boostrap that is already in morph-utils, then include morph-utils in your system11:39
ssam2if not, fine. You don't need botle and flup, anyway, they are just used by morph-cache-server which isn't involved in local building11:39
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mauricemoss_ok, I see. Isn't the idea of the cross-bootstrap.morph to keep the chunks to a minimum? So including morph-utils in the system would bring in chunks that aren't needed at this point?11:48
pedroalvarezmauricemoss_: yes, this was the idea when all the things in morph-utils were in tools.morph. Now we have morph-utils stratum which has the essentials to run morph.11:50
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ssam2mauricemoss_: yes, but as you identified, it would only bring in 3 extra chunks12:15
ssam2and they are all pretty small12:15
mauricemoss_I'll prepare a patch, but independent from mips64b.12:16
nowsterIs there any reason *not* to have /src as ext4?12:34
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pedroalvareznowster: no, and we have change the instructions recently: http://wiki.baserock.org/quick-start/#index3h212:36
nowsterah, good!12:36
ssam2seems we hit some weird morph bug on http://mason-x86-64.baserock.org/ but it's building stuff now12:58
pedroalvarezhow odd13:00
pedroalvarez:S13:00
radiofreeis it possible to view historic logs from mason? or do they get cleaned out13:01
perryl_ssam2: i've pushed changes for the distbuild protocol versioning if you want to give them a quick once-over13:08
pedroalvarezthey don't get cleaned out, but if mason is redeployed we lost them13:08
paulsherwoodis w.b.o up for anyone?13:11
jmacs_Yes13:12
perryl_paulsherwood: yes13:12
paulsherwoododd13:12
paulsherwoodand now it is for me, too13:12
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ssam2perryl_: ta, will have a look and merge it13:13
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* paulsherwood has somehow broken network on his br vm....13:21
paulsherwoodanyone have suggestions on how to troubleshoot? http://paste.baserock.org/puselafihe13:23
jmacspaulsherwood: Are you in Ducie house?13:23
paulsherwoodi'm in Germany13:24
jmacsAh. That ifconfig looks fine then.13:25
richard_mawpaulsherwood: you can stop it renaming the devices by the instructions at the end of http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/13:25
richard_mawpaulsherwood: but that probably isn't causing your network problems itself13:25
richard_mawpaulsherwood: can you paste the output of `ip route`?13:25
paulsherwoodhttp://paste.baserock.org/mesejomafa13:26
paulsherwoodafaik i haven't *done* anything to network lately.... but i have upgraded my devel several times13:27
* paulsherwood left factory behind a year ago13:27
richard_mawI can't see anything obviously wrong there, as I don't know the network layout where you are. Can you ping 10.7.255.251 ?13:29
paulsherwoodno, it hangs, times out13:29
paulsherwood(from baserock vm) - and http://paste.baserock.org/ciwukeropo from host13:30
richard_mawI've never seen "Communication prohibited by filter" before13:31
paulsherwoodhmmm... i did update virtualbox recently. maybe that's it13:32
jjardonHi, any idea why ca-certificates is needed in the core stratum? the git history doesnt say much13:33
richard_mawpaulsherwood: it looks like ping is failing on your host to me, which implies some firewalling to me, but it might just be for ICMP packets13:33
petefothpaulsherwood: are you getting your internet connection via public WiFi, or some other way that might be imposing a filter?13:34
paulsherwoodjjardon: i originally needed it for go/docker, and curl13:34
paulsherwoodothers also came to need it13:34
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paulsherwoodpetefoth, richard_maw - yes, it may be the specifics of my situation. sadly i fear i won't know for sure til i return to uk13:35
* petefoth remembers a wifi network at a customer site which blocked almost eery network operation13:35
petefothpaulsherwood: can you try connecting vie your phone?13:35
petefoths/vie/via/13:35
paulsherwoodpetefoth: nope. 3 has decided to outlaw tethering abroad13:36
petefothOK - I'm out of ideas. Sorry13:37
* paulsherwood is delighted by that, obviously, especially given how much he spends on his phone every month13:37
jjardonpaulsherwood: doesnt seems to fit the criteria to be on core: "Core components of a Baserock base system that are build tools required for the BSP and Foundation strata, but a step above build-essential" Maybe it would be better to move it to foundation?13:37
paulsherwoodpetefoth: thanks anyway :)13:37
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paulsherwoodjjardon: would you move curl there too?13:37
petefothpaulsherwood: I have a 3 APYG MObile Braoidaband SIM which specifically does allo tethering. USed it in my (dual SIM) phone while abrad earlier this month. Might be worth considering that (plus a mifi) for future reference13:38
paulsherwoodpetefoth: i'll do that. and scream at 3 in passing :)13:38
jjardonpaulsherwood: dont think so, git depends on curl13:39
paulsherwoodjjardon: so curl requires ca-certs, if it's accessing https sites for example13:39
jjardonpaulsherwood: is it a build or a runtime dependency?13:39
paulsherwoodruntime13:39
persiaI believe ca-certificates is core because anything that uses ssl wants it.13:39
petefothpaulsherwood: do they actually *enfore* the prohibition? My T-Mobile SIM doesn't allow tethering in it's T&Cs, but it does actually work, at least vai the protable WiFi hotspot feature in Adnroid, in emergencies13:40
persiaSo we decided to put it next to ssl13:40
* petefoth gets back to work13:40
jjardonpaulsherwood: ah, you solve that in your system definitions morph file, not need to put as a build dependency13:40
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paulsherwoodjjardon: yes, true. no need to have it in build-depends: for curl. but i still think it's required in the same stratum as curl13:42
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radiofreeshall we add --disable-tests to the systemd configure options?13:46
KinnisonI'd rather that we run the tests13:46
radiofreedo we run them?13:46
persiaWouldn't that mean we stopped testing systemd at build-time?13:46
paulsherwoodthis is use-case specific13:46
KinnisonBut I appreciate that some people don't like that since it causes extra artifact-build time cost13:46
persiapaulsherwood: How so?  When do you want to label something correctly built when it isn't tested?13:46
paulsherwoodif *i'm* building, i want speed. others may want tests13:46
radiofreei've spent 5+ building tests that i assume will never get run?13:47
persiaAre they not run during the build?13:47
Kinnisonradiofree: If systemd's "make" builds tests then that seems odd13:47
Kinnisonradiofree: unless it also runs them13:47
paulsherwoodpersia: this leads to a debate about what is 'tested'13:47
Kinnisonnormally tests are only built during 'make check'13:47
radiofreewill tell you if they're run after it's finished building13:48
persiapaulsherwood: I think the appropriate place for that debate is in each upstream project, individually, and that we should not impose an ideology.13:48
paulsherwoodi favour system level tests, rather than component tests13:48
paulsherwoodpersia: i'm not imposing anything. i'm just saying, that something passes its unit tests does not convince me that it's working as a whole13:48
KinnisonI favour testing at every possible level, but appreciate that for integration work, system level tests are probably of more use.13:49
persiaI also like system level tests, but if someone has a test to detect successful miscompile, this is useful feedback to get *before* I go build, deploy, and do my system testing.13:49
rjekAlthough systemd already ships with a load of tests.13:49
rjekRecreating them to run on a built system is a lot of work13:49
persiaThe key question, to which I've not seen an answer, is "Do we run them?"13:49
radiofreelooks like you have to run make check to actually run the tests13:49
Kinnisonradiofree: if it's building tests we're not running, then the question is 'do we add make check or do we --disable-tests'13:50
persiaBuilding them and not running them is an ecologically unsound strategy13:50
paulsherwoodheh13:50
pedroalvarezjjardon: curl needs ca-certificates at build time.13:50
paulsherwoodpedroalvarez: well it can build without, it just wont work with ssl?13:51
persiaWhich then breaks git, which breaks lorry, which breaks workflow13:51
pedroalvarezpaulsherwood: ye13:51
paulsherwoodok, i propose -1 for moving ca-certificates13:51
pedroalvarezIndeed, installing ca-certificates later doesn't fix curl13:52
* SotK tests `morph gc` with his OSTree artifact cache and realises with mild despair that its worked and he needs to redownload all his artifacts now13:53
paulsherwoodi'm +1 for adding make check to systemd if others agree, but note that it would be *better* to support both usecases13:53
persiaradiofree: If we aren't running the tests, my vote would be for --disable-tests, along with a shell comment in the YAML indicating that to enable them one has to add `make check` to the build commands.13:53
paulsherwoodit would be nice if we could do build --and-test13:54
persiaThat requires structural changes to definitions.  Isn't there a group defining the requirements for the next definitions format?  They could probably use that sort of suggestion.13:55
KinnisonI am concerned about ensuring equivalence of artifacts built with and without testing enabled13:55
paulsherwoodKinnison: they would not be equivalent, i believe13:55
KinnisonIn that case I think the default should be to build with testing13:57
Kinnisonand you should be able to do --no-testing13:57
Kinnisonto use non-tested artifacts13:57
paulsherwoodok by me13:57
pedroalvarezAnd if you do that, you have to rebuild everything?13:57
Kinnisonyep13:58
Kinnisonunless there's published variants of the artifacts13:58
Kinnisonwhich if the upstreams are sane, and we're using sotk's OSTree cache should be minimal impact for us to publish13:58
radiofreeshould we be doing this for everything then?13:58
radiofreee.g qtbase has loads of test, but we don't build them13:59
Kinnisonpersia: since you're aware of a group defining requirements for the next definitions format, perhaps you can suggest to them that enabling/disabling tests should be part of that -- perhaps a "flag" if they're going down that route mentioned at the meetup?13:59
Kinnisonradiofree: at the point that we can turn them on and off, I think the answer to your question is 'yes'13:59
persiaKinnison: To make sure I understand, you are suggesting adding `make check` in the systemd case, and generally trying to enable testing everywhere?13:59
Kinnisonpersia: I would advocate that only when we are able to control the tests, to allow people such as paulsherwood to disable them13:59
persiaKinnison: My only awareness on the subject is based on my memory of Meetup summaries.14:00
Kinnisonpersia: aah :(14:00
* Kinnison has been unwell since the meetup and hasn't been in much contact with the community :(14:00
* Kinnison shall endeavour to find out who is looking at the definitions thing and then pass on the requirements14:00
* paulsherwood was in said group, and wrote up some stuff, to which richard_maw replied. this could be a useful further reply14:00
persiaAha!  So for now, --disable-tests, and with new-shiny-definitions, `make check`?14:00
Kinnisonpaulsherwood: aah on the ML?  I'm afraid I have 1000+ mails on there :(14:00
Kinnisonpaulsherwood: left to read14:00
Kinnisonpersia: aye14:00
* pedroalvarez wants speed by default14:01
persiaWorks for me.14:01
persiapedroalvarez: Have you considered oil-cooled build servers?14:01
paulsherwoodKinnison: http://wiki.baserock.org/meetup/declarative-definitions/14:01
paulsherwoodi'll add this discussion to the bottom of that page14:02
Kinnisonpaulsherwood: awesomesauce14:03
pedroalvarezI didn't know people was using oil to cool down computeres14:03
pedroalvarezs/res/rs/14:03
jjardonpaulsherwood: pedroalvarez oh, rigth. Nevermind then14:03
Kinnisonpedroalvarez: oil-based cooling systems are messier but safer when they explode vs. water-based ones14:04
Kinnisonand some oil-based cooling systems just submerge the entire system14:04
Kinnisonand then circulate the oil like a huge fish tank14:04
pedroalvarezjust found a picture of someone frying chips on its oil-based cooling system14:05
radiofreeso systemd didn't run the tests by default14:07
KinnisonI vote +2 on: 14:00 < persia> Aha!  So for now, --disable-tests, and with new-shiny-definitions, `make check`?14:08
persiaSince that was just a restatement of what I understood of your proposal, I suspect you need another voice (but I'll +1 to be that voice)14:09
* paulsherwood notes that his wiki update, will magically link to this conversation :-)14:09
persiaIt's not magic: it's the superpowers of the ops team.14:09
paulsherwood+114:09
pedroalvarez:D14:09
jjardonpaulsherwood: Kinnison persia : FYI, there are patches in review for the first step: add support to morph to detect different versions of the format of definitions (basically check the VERSION file)14:11
Kinnisoncool14:11
jjardon-1 to run tests by default: we are not developers, but integrators; we normally use stable versions of any package; they normally have passed the test to be released14:14
pedroalvarezjjardon: if you were a gnome developer and you were using baserock to build a gnome system, would you like to run tests when building?14:16
jjardonpedroalvarez: if Im a GNOME developer and I use baserock to develop the component Im in charge of, sure. If Im using baserock to build the whole system, I dont think so14:18
jjardonin the end all depends if you have the time/knowledge to fix any problem the tests detect14:19
petefothSo both use cases are valid - the decision is which should be the default. Do we think that Baserock will be used more commonly by developers or by integrators? Do we have any evidence, or we just guessing?14:22
bwhjjardon: What makes you think upstream will have run the tests on the same architecture you're using, and with the same versions of dependencies?14:22
persiaI think morph should focus on the integrator use-case.14:23
KinnisonI think that once the new definitions stuff is in place, it can be up to the definitions which is default14:23
persiaIt would be nice to have a tool that could read definitions, and run the commands against a local git workspace for a project to support developers, but I think that is more sensibly a separate tool.14:23
Kinnisonand that which we choose to be default for the demo/reference baserock systems can be our choice later14:23
persiaAs for problems detected by tests: I think we should assume anyone has the means to fix these in our context.  If only by changing the ref or playing with git-bisect until they find a case where the tests pass.  In most cases, the core developers can be reached by mail, and appreciate reports of test failures.14:26
Zaratried to upgrade (to) devel system, got this error: Too many mounts (maximum of 1024)14:35
Zara(this is running cycle.sh)14:36
paulsherwoodZara: if you do system-version-manager list, how many entries do you see?14:36
Zarajust factory14:37
Zaraso 114:37
paulsherwoodhmmm. i'm baffled14:37
ZaraI've been getting all sorts of weird errors with this VM; tried clearing src and upgrading to see if that'd help, but now I'm getting weird errors in that process, too. Might just start from scratch.14:38
* SotK realises OSTree will make it easy for us to have multiple artifact-cache-server entries if we so desire (istr someone wanting multiple caches in the past but I may be wrong)15:42
pedroalvarezthat was me :)15:43
pedroalvarezi have a cache server here in my local network, but I'd like sometimes to use cache.baserock.org whenever possible15:44
persiaI'd also like hierarchical cache servers: trying local, then cache.baserock.org15:50
persiaI've also had discussions with an organisation that want workgroup-local caches, then an organisation-wide cache, with expected very rare use of cache.baserock.org15:51
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tiagogomes_is there any machine booting using pxe that I can use to do a test?16:34
radiofreessam2: http://paste.fedoraproject.org/190381/14248828/16:47
radiofreethat's my upgrade cluster once it's flashed in that way16:48
straycatdoes anyone know what's going on with the mason? i've ended up needing to build coreutils on master16:50
ssam2straycat: do you mean mason-x86-64.baserock.org? when I last checked it was building stuff16:51
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straycatssam2, yes16:53
ssam2it's currently building 'fuse'16:55
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straycatahh :/16:57
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Zarahas anyone else recently (ie: in the last few days) tried building a new baserock vm (using virt-manager) and then upgrading it to a devel vm? (just trying to work out if my odd run of errors over the last couple of days is definitely all my own fault)17:30
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straycato/18:37
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