IRC logs for #baserock for Tuesday, 2015-01-13

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rdale_i'm getting an error from the upstream:linux repo: Unable to extract tarball http://git.baserock.org/tarballs/git___git_baserock_org_delta_linux.tar: Command failed: wget --quiet -O- http://git.baserock.org/tarballs/git___git_baserock_org_delta_linux.tar09:22
rdale_tar: short read09:22
KinnisonIt's possible that your internet connection is insufficiently stable to maintain the download for the tarball (it is quite big)09:24
* Kinnison checks the server though just in case09:25
KinnisonAha, I've been told that the storage network behind our cloud instances is squiffy09:26
Kinnisonso it's possible you'll need to wait for that to be restored09:26
KinnisonSorry09:26
rdale_ok thanks - i'm pretty sure my internet connection is reasonable09:27
KinnisonGood to know09:27
* Kinnison growls at nebulous hosting09:27
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bashrc_when trying to cross boostrap I'm getting a strange error, as follows: http://0bin.net/paste/kenBfIp2YATykltK#DNZA66vSIV7QBtInWY-cd2E/TMfhvjywdogn/4q9I6P09:31
mwilliams_ctpedroalvarez: as expected, that didn't build. going to have a go at getting a bsp generic, though as Kinnison said it might not work either09:34
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tiagogomesbashrc_, the morphology doesn't exist in definitions master. If you added a new file, you must do `git add` before running morph09:34
bashrc_did a git add, and can see it was added with git status, but still the same result09:36
straycat that command doesn't use a local checkout of the repo so whatever changes you want to use need to be committed and pushed09:36
straycatto the relevant branch09:36
bashrc_ok09:37
bashrc_if I try to push: "git@git.baserock.org's password". No idea what that is09:41
straycatthat means you're not authd to do so09:41
franredbashrc_, g.b.o is down at the moment09:42
KinnisonIn addition09:42
bashrc_so this isn't something that anyone can do?09:42
KinnisonYou could create a repository and push it elsewhere, and then change the baserock:baserock/definitions for the URL to your own repository containing the content09:43
Kinnisoncontaining the content?  Oh dear09:43
* Kinnison needs tea09:43
bashrc_so, if the morph isn't in a branch on git.baserock.org then it can't be used?09:44
straycatno09:44
bashrc_eesh09:44
Kinnisonbashrc_: Basically it looks like cross-bootstrap works from repositories rather than workspaces09:44
bashrc_that makes any independent development hard09:44
straycatnot at all, the command only requires a repo somewhere09:45
Kinnisonbashrc_: as I said, make a repo elsewhere, push your branch of definitions to that, and use that repo's URL when invoking cross-bootstrap09:45
Kinnisonalthough overall it won't help since git.baserock.org is currently down due to backing storage outage at our nebulous hosting provider09:45
bashrc_or at least, the instructions which I've been following are locked into a particular repo and need genericising (is that a word?)09:45
paulsherwoodi guess this proves we need a mirror/fallback for gbo09:46
KinnisonThe instructions were likely written from the PoV of someone who had push access to that server09:46
straycatall the instructions are written assuming you're going to use gbo09:46
straycatany use of a repo is general09:46
SotKbashrc_: doing `morph cross-bootstrap x86_32 file:///src/workspace/crossboot/baserock/baserock/definitions HEAD systems/cross-bootstrap-system-x86_32-generic.morph` might work09:47
straycatthat said, i think the use of repo aliases might be obscuring this a little though, idk09:49
bashrc_seems to be doing something...09:50
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bashrc_does morph cross-bootstrap normally take a long time with no stdout, or has my VM died, I wonder09:59
straycatbashrc_, perhaps try running with --verbose?10:00
KinnisonI imagine it's trying to fetch something from git.baserock.org which will sit and hang for timeouts10:00
bashrc_I can escape from it, so it's just taking a long time10:00
bashrc_ah yes that might explain it10:00
bashrc_http://www.picdumps.com/pics/6455/12.jpg10:02
straycat:)10:03
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pedroalvarezpaulsherwood: yeah, but this mirror/fallback cannot be in the same place10:12
paulsherwoodclearly ;)10:13
jmacsI had this error last night when trying to run morph build: ERROR: Git directory /src/workspace/jmac-merged-branch-2/git@github.com/jmacarthur/definitions.git has no commit at ref refs/heads/baserock/builds/4bc3473310:15
jmacsIt only occurs if I change the ref in strata/ceph-service.morph10:15
jmacsBut I don't understand what the error means10:15
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KinnisonIt looks like it's trying to construct a temporary build branch10:16
Kinnisonand failing somehow perhaps?10:16
SotKtry running with --verbose?10:16
jmacs2015-01-13 10:17:23 Adding uncommitted changes in /src...10:17
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jmacsI can make a new branch and check my change into it, but I still get the same error10:20
franredjmacs, does morph.log give you more information?10:22
jmacsOnly that it's trying to git rev-parse --verify refs/heads/baserock/builds/4bc34... and fails10:23
jmacsAha! It's because I don't have master checked out10:24
straycat"The problem we have is that pylint has tagged the 1.4 release as pylint-1.410:56
straycatbut the import tool expects the tag to be pylint-1.4.0..."10:56
straycatWe could probably get rid of that sort of problem quite easily10:56
jmacsIs git.baserock.org poorly?11:01
De|taIt was earlier, and not heard anything otherwise since.11:01
Kinnison09:26 < Kinnison> Aha, I've been told that the storage network behind our cloud instances is squiffy11:01
KinnisonI've recently been told that the provider hopes to have it restored by 12:0011:01
jmacsBah.11:01
KinnisonIf they do, then I imagine pedroalvarez or one of the others may then need to gently coax gbo to life11:01
rjekIt will have oopsed rather a lot, I imagine11:02
pedroalvarezindeed11:02
pedroalvarezI'm not sure, since g.b.o looks frozen11:02
pedroalvarezwe will see11:03
lachlanmackenzieI've downloaded the latest x86 64-bit raw system build disk image, but I'm getting a mismatch between the listed sha256 and the calculated. Is it possible for someone to double check whether the website has been updated with the latest value?11:19
pedroalvarezlachlanmackenzie: hi! I've just updated the value of them.11:22
lachlanmackenzieThanks11:22
pedroalvareznp  :)11:23
bwhIt sure would be nice if the web site was available with TLS...11:25
KinnisonI can organise a *.baserock.org SSL certificate with ease if someone else wants to set things up11:27
KinnisonWell, I say "with ease" -- I'll still have to go to the car to get the other parts of the identity I need to authenticate to my cert provider, set things up, etc.11:29
Kinnisonbut it's maybe a 30m task11:29
DavePageKinnison: I'd rather we did it in a proper "handover to Baserock Ops" way than a "we need Kinnison to fix this if something goes wrong" way.11:30
KinnisonDavePage: Oh indeed, except that as the person responsible for baserock.org 's MXing, I'm kinda part of baserock ops anyway11:30
* Kinnison leaves it as an offer11:31
pedroalvarez:)11:31
KinnisonIt will cost me nothing to sort out the certificate11:31
Kinnison(other than time)11:31
pedroalvarezI really don't know what are the advantages of having it, and the resources that we will need, so I don't want to say "yes please!!" on my own.11:32
pedroalvarezI really appreciate the offer Kinnison :)11:32
Kinnison:_)11:33
bwhpedroalvarez: I want TLS because currently the same entity MITM'ing the downloaded file can MITM the page with the checksum11:36
franredKinnison, I appreciate the offer too11:37
bwhso it guards against accidental errors only11:37
DavePageIt would certainly be good practice (dpeending on how much you trust the SSL / CA system in general, I'm sure persia has Opinions)11:37
bwhOh I certainly have opinions but it seems preferable11:37
KinnisonOh I dislike the CA system but sadly there's little better at this time11:37
KinnisonNot least, CACert's roots are not in all browsers11:38
Kinnisonand CACert's processes seem dodgy to some extent11:38
bwhKinnison: Online signing and a front-end written in PHP? What could possibly go wrong?11:38
Kinnisonbwh: and that's before you drill into their cross-certification processes11:39
bwhThere are browser plugins you can use that will catch some kinds of CA subversion11:39
KinnisonIn the interests of full disclosure, I'd be providing a startssl certificate if I did provide one -- and they're not a lot better, but at least I trust them a tad more11:39
rjekObviously we should all be using Let's Encrypt!, which is US based and I'm sure US government organisations will put no effort into pressuring them behind the scenes at all.11:39
rjekKinnison: It says a lot when you trust an Israeli-government-backed certificate vendor than an open-process organisation :)11:40
Kinnisonindeed11:41
* bashrc_ thinks the whole CA thing is dodgy anyway, but marginally better than cleartext11:43
bashrc_if you're using startssl just make sure you don't let them generate the private cert11:44
Kinnisonbashrc_: indeed11:44
straycatOh, running with --no-git-update now seems to hang instead of returning 'Not cached' :/11:51
KinnisonThe storage cluster behind the nebulous hosting provider is currently rebalancing itself11:52
straycat*nod* regardless of the state of that --no-git-update needs to not hang11:52
Kinnisonwell it "hangs" if it needs the server for things other than git pull11:53
KinnisonBut I agree, locally caching the results of queries to the git cache server would make sense11:53
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Zara_hm, Gavin's asking in the mailing list if baserock is offline-- suggests that not all baserock users use #baserock, and mailing-list notifications might be a good idea12:10
pedroalvarezZara_: that's a good point12:11
* paulsherwood has replied12:11
Zara_:)12:11
Zara_I always get emails a while after the time listed by my client...12:12
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straycatI'm so glad --verbose shows clone progress now12:31
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Zara_rdale_ has done beautiful rubygems things for us! Thank you, rdale_! :D12:58
rdale_yes, i have built rails 3.x which may do for the tutorial perhaps12:59
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jjardonHi! Is g.b.o down? Known issue?13:16
rjekjjardon: Yes, yes.13:17
rjekjjardon: There is no ETA for a fix yet (problem at data centre)13:17
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jjardonrjek: oh,ok. thanks for the info13:18
Zara_rdale_: :) My current plan is to have a quickstart tutorial for an uncomplicated gem (so users know what to expect), a page of build rules for gems (this also serves as a map of what to automate), and then some kind of errors section which would explain things in more detail. So we may not need a walkthrough for rails 3.x in that case. The fewer gem-specific tutorials, the better, imo.13:25
rdale_i see - i'm writing some more mails about how i got on with the import with one topic per mail to keep it simple13:29
Zara_Great, that should help a lot. :)13:32
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persiaFor the record, my opinion about TLS/CA is that the CA model is bonkers and that TLS has other benefits depite our inability to trust key exchange.14:14
rjekYes.14:16
bashrc_There are other possible ways in which TLS could be applied, such as a consensus between CAs or a blockchain, it it requires the involvement of the main browser projects to really give that traction14:17
paulsherwoodam i right that most folks can continue working by setting --no-git-update if gbo is unavailable?14:17
straycatsadly not14:18
Kinnisonsadly, unless they have all  the git repos locally, no14:18
bashrc_so currently it appears that baserock is too centralised around one server14:19
straycatyou can use another trove14:19
* paulsherwood is ok, because he does have all the repos locally14:20
straycati have a trove deployed elsewhere and have been using that while gbo is down14:20
paulsherwoodbashrc_: other organisations have their own troves too14:20
franredbut some projects can not have all the repos locally14:23
persiaThe centralisation is an inevitable consequence of the choice to use simple repo prefices and mirrored repos.14:23
persiaThat said, is there any reason not to use a CDN or similar for g.b.o?14:24
paulsherwoodKinnison: ^^ ?14:24
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rjekCost?14:28
robtaylorpersia: i think i've mentioned that as an idea a few times =)14:30
persiaDoesn't have to be that fancy: geospecific DNS is available in open-source, and infrastructure costs are infrastructure costs.  The main issue is synchronisation of pushes.14:30
persiarobtaylor: Did you get any interesting reasons not to do it?14:30
robtaylorpersia: not particularly, just a matter of implementation , i think14:30
KinnisonIt's a question of master/slave vs. multimaster.  Synchronisation delays, and costs14:32
persiaIs there a solution for multimaster git?14:33
KinnisonBeyond whatever github do for their horizontal scaling, I have no idea14:35
robtayloroh yeah, i was only thinking in terms of artifact caching14:35
persiaThere's some design documents for gerrit, but I don't think there is a complete solution, although this code may disagreehttps://gerrit.googlesource.com/plugins/multi-master/: 14:36
robtaylorthere's proritary git cdn extentions, iirc14:36
robtaylorhttps://rawgit.com/14:37
robtaylorhmm, no , not that14:37
persiaThat's master/slave14:37
robtaylorhttp://blog.beanstalkapp.com/post/58177003376/beanstalks-git-cdn-a-k-a-world-domination14:37
robtaylorI'm not sure multimaster is required. master/slave with master failover would be sufficient, i think14:38
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persiarobtaylor: That requires that push and pull URLs differ, or that we never use the slaves except in the case of problems with master.14:39
DavePageI suspect master/slave would be fine - the thing that's blocking most people right now is inability to pull, not push, right?14:39
persiaLack of push means that nothing can be updated, which has other issues.14:40
DavePageYeah, I'm just wondering what the effort/reward tradeoffs are, assuming that our infra will me more reliable in future.14:41
persiaIn the event we have a current and high-quality backup of the data, we should be able to trivially deploy a trove anywhere, given a configuration file, in data-transmission-time.14:44
robtaylorpersia: i think the beanstalks soln is multi master, but as its propriatry, its hard to tell14:44
persiarobtaylor: From the write-up, I think you are right.14:45
richard_mawthe googlesource thing is a readme saying how to do single-site multi-master. It works by putting the git repositories on a networked filesystem, a shared database and a load balancer.14:45
robtaylorpersia: you could just have one canonical repostiroty of refs, with failover14:45
persiaHowever, that model causes an outage window.  The more trove services that are enabled on a slave, the smaller the window, but it still exists.14:45
robtaylorand distribute the object store14:45
persiaIf we can do mutli-master, then removing any machine for maintenance or outage does not impact anyone else.14:46
persiaAs the current model involves endpoint troves querying git.baserock.org, the current outage is resulting in error messages for any deployed troves, and fixing them all to use alternate naming or flipping naming is annoying.14:46
persiarobtaylor: Yes.  My alternate naive model was to distribute the objects on push receipt and publish via a consensus algorithm.14:47
robtaylorpersia: consensus for the refs?14:48
KinnisonRisky with the potential for multiple conflicting pushes14:48
persiaAnd the objects, perhaps with some restrictive promotion logic, so that a ref doesn't become available unless the objects supporting it are available.14:49
robtaylorpersia: well you can always fetch missing objects on demand14:49
robtaylori'd think its more important that everyone agrees on the refs14:50
persiaKinnison: Good point.14:51
persiaAren't there solutions from the filesystem space that work around some of this?  Distributed filesystems seem to be abundant, so using those semantics for git doesn't seem terribly awkward.14:51
persiarobtaylor: Part of the issue with fetch-on-demand is fetch-from-where: in the absence of a "master", that is poorly defined.14:52
Kinnisonpersia: a distributed FS backing the git storage might make sense14:52
Kinnisonpersia: So long as it can be distributed reliably, efficiently, and securely, over the interwebnets14:53
Kinnisonpersia: otherwise your basket expands only as far as your storage fabric14:53
persiaI'd like to see more semantic attachment.14:53
persiaI find it convenient to think of git as a file system, and as such, would think the same model would work.14:53
persiaBut just replacing the backing store for git may cause all sorts of consistency issues, as it relies on the atomicity of git internal operations.14:54
franredI may be simplistic and naive, but can not we have a master/slaves trove configuration which promotes a slave trove to master and the downgrade trove when is up becomes slave?14:55
Kinnisonpersia: It could be interesting to redo the backing store for git on top of something like zookeeper, and implement the receive-pack and upload-pack protocols on top of that.14:56
persiaI'd prefer a strictly consistent store, but hmmm....14:57
persiafranred: Needs a method to cause clients to access the promoted trove, and for the promoted trove to have enabled services.14:57
persiaSome things (e.g. lorrying) behave differently for master vs. slave troves.14:58
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franredpersia, yes, but we have troves which mirror other troves, blocking in the slave push access, and changing the lorry controller to trove the repositories which master were lorrying, enabling push in the master and becoming git.baserock.org wouldn't work?15:02
persiafranred: Depends on the outage time that is acceptable.  If an outage is acceptable, then that works.15:03
persiaIf an outage is not acceptable, then that takes too long.15:03
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lachlanmackenzieI'm looking at some issues for co002 and need to find out a bit more about the way in which Baserock is built - i.e. toolchain/compiler and how it can be adapted for MIPS. Where is the best place to start?15:06
persialachlanmackenzie: http://wiki.baserock.org/guides/how-to-cross-bootstrap/15:08
lachlanmackenziepersia: Thanks.15:08
persiaThe last time someone tried to go through that for MIPS was more than six months ago, so there may have been some adjustments that mean it is out of date.15:08
persiaIf you encounter problems, please ask, and if you find errors in the docs, please fix.15:09
lachlanmackenzieWill do.15:09
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rdalethe address of my kvm vm is 10.0.2.15 and the nameserver is 10.0.2.3, but i can no longer ping the nameserver. what would cause that to happen? i ran cycle.sh this morning and it failed because baserock.org was down - is it something to do with that?15:26
rjekrdale: What are your netmasks and routes?15:27
rdaleis that the 'route -n' command?15:27
rjekOr -a15:30
persiaor `ip route`15:30
rdalehttp://paste.baserock.org/cesagalibe15:31
rjekip has a user-hostile interface, so I never recommend it in support contexts15:31
rdaleso the gateway has changed from 10.0.2.3 to 10.0.2.2, but that isn't what isn't what is in /etc/resolv.conf15:33
persiaresolv.conf controlls name resolution, but not network topology.15:33
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locallycompactHow do you turn the lorry controller timeout off?17:11
pedroalvarezyou can increase it, I don't know if you can turn it off17:15
locallycompactwhere do I do that17:20
pedroalvarezmodifying the lorry-controller.conf file in the trove's lorries.git repo17:21
pedroalvarezI'd show you git.baserock.org's example, but it's still down :(17:21
paulsherwoodpedroalvarez: can you paste something from another trove, pedroalvarez ?17:23
paulsherwoodi can, actually17:24
pedroalvarezthis is one example of the file: http://pastebin.com/fKC4nhTS17:25
pedroalvarezin my case 7200 is the timeout17:25
pedroalvarez(2 hours?)17:25
locallycompactperfect, thank you17:25
pedroalvarezyou are welcome17:25
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straycatcool, coverage imported ok17:39
paulsherwood:)17:45
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pedroalvarezI have to go now. I'll check later if git.baserock.org is up to see if needs help. 18:09
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Zara_well, I've got lots of documentation done today18:21
Zara_http://wiki.baserock.org/guides/import-tool/18:21
Zara_it's not pretty yet, but it's getting there.18:22
straycatthat's coolo18:23
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