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| rdale_ | i'm getting an error from the upstream:linux repo: Unable to extract tarball http://git.baserock.org/tarballs/git___git_baserock_org_delta_linux.tar: Command failed: wget --quiet -O- http://git.baserock.org/tarballs/git___git_baserock_org_delta_linux.tar | 09:22 |
|---|---|---|
| rdale_ | tar: short read | 09:22 |
| Kinnison | It's possible that your internet connection is insufficiently stable to maintain the download for the tarball (it is quite big) | 09:24 |
| * Kinnison checks the server though just in case | 09:25 | |
| Kinnison | Aha, I've been told that the storage network behind our cloud instances is squiffy | 09:26 |
| Kinnison | so it's possible you'll need to wait for that to be restored | 09:26 |
| Kinnison | Sorry | 09:26 |
| rdale_ | ok thanks - i'm pretty sure my internet connection is reasonable | 09:27 |
| Kinnison | Good to know | 09:27 |
| * Kinnison growls at nebulous hosting | 09:27 | |
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| bashrc_ | when trying to cross boostrap I'm getting a strange error, as follows: http://0bin.net/paste/kenBfIp2YATykltK#DNZA66vSIV7QBtInWY-cd2E/TMfhvjywdogn/4q9I6P | 09:31 |
| mwilliams_ct | pedroalvarez: as expected, that didn't build. going to have a go at getting a bsp generic, though as Kinnison said it might not work either | 09:34 |
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| tiagogomes | bashrc_, the morphology doesn't exist in definitions master. If you added a new file, you must do `git add` before running morph | 09:34 |
| bashrc_ | did a git add, and can see it was added with git status, but still the same result | 09:36 |
| straycat | that command doesn't use a local checkout of the repo so whatever changes you want to use need to be committed and pushed | 09:36 |
| straycat | to the relevant branch | 09:36 |
| bashrc_ | ok | 09:37 |
| bashrc_ | if I try to push: "git@git.baserock.org's password". No idea what that is | 09:41 |
| straycat | that means you're not authd to do so | 09:41 |
| franred | bashrc_, g.b.o is down at the moment | 09:42 |
| Kinnison | In addition | 09:42 |
| bashrc_ | so this isn't something that anyone can do? | 09:42 |
| Kinnison | You could create a repository and push it elsewhere, and then change the baserock:baserock/definitions for the URL to your own repository containing the content | 09:43 |
| Kinnison | containing the content? Oh dear | 09:43 |
| * Kinnison needs tea | 09:43 | |
| bashrc_ | so, if the morph isn't in a branch on git.baserock.org then it can't be used? | 09:44 |
| straycat | no | 09:44 |
| bashrc_ | eesh | 09:44 |
| Kinnison | bashrc_: Basically it looks like cross-bootstrap works from repositories rather than workspaces | 09:44 |
| bashrc_ | that makes any independent development hard | 09:44 |
| straycat | not at all, the command only requires a repo somewhere | 09:45 |
| Kinnison | bashrc_: as I said, make a repo elsewhere, push your branch of definitions to that, and use that repo's URL when invoking cross-bootstrap | 09:45 |
| Kinnison | although overall it won't help since git.baserock.org is currently down due to backing storage outage at our nebulous hosting provider | 09:45 |
| bashrc_ | or at least, the instructions which I've been following are locked into a particular repo and need genericising (is that a word?) | 09:45 |
| paulsherwood | i guess this proves we need a mirror/fallback for gbo | 09:46 |
| Kinnison | The instructions were likely written from the PoV of someone who had push access to that server | 09:46 |
| straycat | all the instructions are written assuming you're going to use gbo | 09:46 |
| straycat | any use of a repo is general | 09:46 |
| SotK | bashrc_: doing `morph cross-bootstrap x86_32 file:///src/workspace/crossboot/baserock/baserock/definitions HEAD systems/cross-bootstrap-system-x86_32-generic.morph` might work | 09:47 |
| straycat | that said, i think the use of repo aliases might be obscuring this a little though, idk | 09:49 |
| bashrc_ | seems to be doing something... | 09:50 |
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| bashrc_ | does morph cross-bootstrap normally take a long time with no stdout, or has my VM died, I wonder | 09:59 |
| straycat | bashrc_, perhaps try running with --verbose? | 10:00 |
| Kinnison | I imagine it's trying to fetch something from git.baserock.org which will sit and hang for timeouts | 10:00 |
| bashrc_ | I can escape from it, so it's just taking a long time | 10:00 |
| bashrc_ | ah yes that might explain it | 10:00 |
| bashrc_ | http://www.picdumps.com/pics/6455/12.jpg | 10:02 |
| straycat | :) | 10:03 |
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| pedroalvarez | paulsherwood: yeah, but this mirror/fallback cannot be in the same place | 10:12 |
| paulsherwood | clearly ;) | 10:13 |
| jmacs | I had this error last night when trying to run morph build: ERROR: Git directory /src/workspace/jmac-merged-branch-2/git@github.com/jmacarthur/definitions.git has no commit at ref refs/heads/baserock/builds/4bc34733 | 10:15 |
| jmacs | It only occurs if I change the ref in strata/ceph-service.morph | 10:15 |
| jmacs | But I don't understand what the error means | 10:15 |
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| Kinnison | It looks like it's trying to construct a temporary build branch | 10:16 |
| Kinnison | and failing somehow perhaps? | 10:16 |
| SotK | try running with --verbose? | 10:16 |
| jmacs | 2015-01-13 10:17:23 Adding uncommitted changes in /src... | 10:17 |
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| jmacs | I can make a new branch and check my change into it, but I still get the same error | 10:20 |
| franred | jmacs, does morph.log give you more information? | 10:22 |
| jmacs | Only that it's trying to git rev-parse --verify refs/heads/baserock/builds/4bc34... and fails | 10:23 |
| jmacs | Aha! It's because I don't have master checked out | 10:24 |
| straycat | "The problem we have is that pylint has tagged the 1.4 release as pylint-1.4 | 10:56 |
| straycat | but the import tool expects the tag to be pylint-1.4.0..." | 10:56 |
| straycat | We could probably get rid of that sort of problem quite easily | 10:56 |
| jmacs | Is git.baserock.org poorly? | 11:01 |
| De|ta | It was earlier, and not heard anything otherwise since. | 11:01 |
| Kinnison | 09:26 < Kinnison> Aha, I've been told that the storage network behind our cloud instances is squiffy | 11:01 |
| Kinnison | I've recently been told that the provider hopes to have it restored by 12:00 | 11:01 |
| jmacs | Bah. | 11:01 |
| Kinnison | If they do, then I imagine pedroalvarez or one of the others may then need to gently coax gbo to life | 11:01 |
| rjek | It will have oopsed rather a lot, I imagine | 11:02 |
| pedroalvarez | indeed | 11:02 |
| pedroalvarez | I'm not sure, since g.b.o looks frozen | 11:02 |
| pedroalvarez | we will see | 11:03 |
| lachlanmackenzie | I've downloaded the latest x86 64-bit raw system build disk image, but I'm getting a mismatch between the listed sha256 and the calculated. Is it possible for someone to double check whether the website has been updated with the latest value? | 11:19 |
| pedroalvarez | lachlanmackenzie: hi! I've just updated the value of them. | 11:22 |
| lachlanmackenzie | Thanks | 11:22 |
| pedroalvarez | np :) | 11:23 |
| bwh | It sure would be nice if the web site was available with TLS... | 11:25 |
| Kinnison | I can organise a *.baserock.org SSL certificate with ease if someone else wants to set things up | 11:27 |
| Kinnison | Well, I say "with ease" -- I'll still have to go to the car to get the other parts of the identity I need to authenticate to my cert provider, set things up, etc. | 11:29 |
| Kinnison | but it's maybe a 30m task | 11:29 |
| DavePage | Kinnison: I'd rather we did it in a proper "handover to Baserock Ops" way than a "we need Kinnison to fix this if something goes wrong" way. | 11:30 |
| Kinnison | DavePage: Oh indeed, except that as the person responsible for baserock.org 's MXing, I'm kinda part of baserock ops anyway | 11:30 |
| * Kinnison leaves it as an offer | 11:31 | |
| pedroalvarez | :) | 11:31 |
| Kinnison | It will cost me nothing to sort out the certificate | 11:31 |
| Kinnison | (other than time) | 11:31 |
| pedroalvarez | I really don't know what are the advantages of having it, and the resources that we will need, so I don't want to say "yes please!!" on my own. | 11:32 |
| pedroalvarez | I really appreciate the offer Kinnison :) | 11:32 |
| Kinnison | :_) | 11:33 |
| bwh | pedroalvarez: I want TLS because currently the same entity MITM'ing the downloaded file can MITM the page with the checksum | 11:36 |
| franred | Kinnison, I appreciate the offer too | 11:37 |
| bwh | so it guards against accidental errors only | 11:37 |
| DavePage | It would certainly be good practice (dpeending on how much you trust the SSL / CA system in general, I'm sure persia has Opinions) | 11:37 |
| bwh | Oh I certainly have opinions but it seems preferable | 11:37 |
| Kinnison | Oh I dislike the CA system but sadly there's little better at this time | 11:37 |
| Kinnison | Not least, CACert's roots are not in all browsers | 11:38 |
| Kinnison | and CACert's processes seem dodgy to some extent | 11:38 |
| bwh | Kinnison: Online signing and a front-end written in PHP? What could possibly go wrong? | 11:38 |
| Kinnison | bwh: and that's before you drill into their cross-certification processes | 11:39 |
| bwh | There are browser plugins you can use that will catch some kinds of CA subversion | 11:39 |
| Kinnison | In the interests of full disclosure, I'd be providing a startssl certificate if I did provide one -- and they're not a lot better, but at least I trust them a tad more | 11:39 |
| rjek | Obviously we should all be using Let's Encrypt!, which is US based and I'm sure US government organisations will put no effort into pressuring them behind the scenes at all. | 11:39 |
| rjek | Kinnison: It says a lot when you trust an Israeli-government-backed certificate vendor than an open-process organisation :) | 11:40 |
| Kinnison | indeed | 11:41 |
| * bashrc_ thinks the whole CA thing is dodgy anyway, but marginally better than cleartext | 11:43 | |
| bashrc_ | if you're using startssl just make sure you don't let them generate the private cert | 11:44 |
| Kinnison | bashrc_: indeed | 11:44 |
| straycat | Oh, running with --no-git-update now seems to hang instead of returning 'Not cached' :/ | 11:51 |
| Kinnison | The storage cluster behind the nebulous hosting provider is currently rebalancing itself | 11:52 |
| straycat | *nod* regardless of the state of that --no-git-update needs to not hang | 11:52 |
| Kinnison | well it "hangs" if it needs the server for things other than git pull | 11:53 |
| Kinnison | But I agree, locally caching the results of queries to the git cache server would make sense | 11:53 |
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| Zara_ | hm, Gavin's asking in the mailing list if baserock is offline-- suggests that not all baserock users use #baserock, and mailing-list notifications might be a good idea | 12:10 |
| pedroalvarez | Zara_: that's a good point | 12:11 |
| * paulsherwood has replied | 12:11 | |
| Zara_ | :) | 12:11 |
| Zara_ | I always get emails a while after the time listed by my client... | 12:12 |
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| straycat | I'm so glad --verbose shows clone progress now | 12:31 |
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| Zara_ | rdale_ has done beautiful rubygems things for us! Thank you, rdale_! :D | 12:58 |
| rdale_ | yes, i have built rails 3.x which may do for the tutorial perhaps | 12:59 |
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| jjardon | Hi! Is g.b.o down? Known issue? | 13:16 |
| rjek | jjardon: Yes, yes. | 13:17 |
| rjek | jjardon: There is no ETA for a fix yet (problem at data centre) | 13:17 |
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| jjardon | rjek: oh,ok. thanks for the info | 13:18 |
| Zara_ | rdale_: :) My current plan is to have a quickstart tutorial for an uncomplicated gem (so users know what to expect), a page of build rules for gems (this also serves as a map of what to automate), and then some kind of errors section which would explain things in more detail. So we may not need a walkthrough for rails 3.x in that case. The fewer gem-specific tutorials, the better, imo. | 13:25 |
| rdale_ | i see - i'm writing some more mails about how i got on with the import with one topic per mail to keep it simple | 13:29 |
| Zara_ | Great, that should help a lot. :) | 13:32 |
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| persia | For the record, my opinion about TLS/CA is that the CA model is bonkers and that TLS has other benefits depite our inability to trust key exchange. | 14:14 |
| rjek | Yes. | 14:16 |
| bashrc_ | There are other possible ways in which TLS could be applied, such as a consensus between CAs or a blockchain, it it requires the involvement of the main browser projects to really give that traction | 14:17 |
| paulsherwood | am i right that most folks can continue working by setting --no-git-update if gbo is unavailable? | 14:17 |
| straycat | sadly not | 14:18 |
| Kinnison | sadly, unless they have all the git repos locally, no | 14:18 |
| bashrc_ | so currently it appears that baserock is too centralised around one server | 14:19 |
| straycat | you can use another trove | 14:19 |
| * paulsherwood is ok, because he does have all the repos locally | 14:20 | |
| straycat | i have a trove deployed elsewhere and have been using that while gbo is down | 14:20 |
| paulsherwood | bashrc_: other organisations have their own troves too | 14:20 |
| franred | but some projects can not have all the repos locally | 14:23 |
| persia | The centralisation is an inevitable consequence of the choice to use simple repo prefices and mirrored repos. | 14:23 |
| persia | That said, is there any reason not to use a CDN or similar for g.b.o? | 14:24 |
| paulsherwood | Kinnison: ^^ ? | 14:24 |
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| rjek | Cost? | 14:28 |
| robtaylor | persia: i think i've mentioned that as an idea a few times =) | 14:30 |
| persia | Doesn't have to be that fancy: geospecific DNS is available in open-source, and infrastructure costs are infrastructure costs. The main issue is synchronisation of pushes. | 14:30 |
| persia | robtaylor: Did you get any interesting reasons not to do it? | 14:30 |
| robtaylor | persia: not particularly, just a matter of implementation , i think | 14:30 |
| Kinnison | It's a question of master/slave vs. multimaster. Synchronisation delays, and costs | 14:32 |
| persia | Is there a solution for multimaster git? | 14:33 |
| Kinnison | Beyond whatever github do for their horizontal scaling, I have no idea | 14:35 |
| robtaylor | oh yeah, i was only thinking in terms of artifact caching | 14:35 |
| persia | There's some design documents for gerrit, but I don't think there is a complete solution, although this code may disagreehttps://gerrit.googlesource.com/plugins/multi-master/: | 14:36 |
| robtaylor | there's proritary git cdn extentions, iirc | 14:36 |
| robtaylor | https://rawgit.com/ | 14:37 |
| robtaylor | hmm, no , not that | 14:37 |
| persia | That's master/slave | 14:37 |
| robtaylor | http://blog.beanstalkapp.com/post/58177003376/beanstalks-git-cdn-a-k-a-world-domination | 14:37 |
| robtaylor | I'm not sure multimaster is required. master/slave with master failover would be sufficient, i think | 14:38 |
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| persia | robtaylor: That requires that push and pull URLs differ, or that we never use the slaves except in the case of problems with master. | 14:39 |
| DavePage | I suspect master/slave would be fine - the thing that's blocking most people right now is inability to pull, not push, right? | 14:39 |
| persia | Lack of push means that nothing can be updated, which has other issues. | 14:40 |
| DavePage | Yeah, I'm just wondering what the effort/reward tradeoffs are, assuming that our infra will me more reliable in future. | 14:41 |
| persia | In the event we have a current and high-quality backup of the data, we should be able to trivially deploy a trove anywhere, given a configuration file, in data-transmission-time. | 14:44 |
| robtaylor | persia: i think the beanstalks soln is multi master, but as its propriatry, its hard to tell | 14:44 |
| persia | robtaylor: From the write-up, I think you are right. | 14:45 |
| richard_maw | the googlesource thing is a readme saying how to do single-site multi-master. It works by putting the git repositories on a networked filesystem, a shared database and a load balancer. | 14:45 |
| robtaylor | persia: you could just have one canonical repostiroty of refs, with failover | 14:45 |
| persia | However, that model causes an outage window. The more trove services that are enabled on a slave, the smaller the window, but it still exists. | 14:45 |
| robtaylor | and distribute the object store | 14:45 |
| persia | If we can do mutli-master, then removing any machine for maintenance or outage does not impact anyone else. | 14:46 |
| persia | As the current model involves endpoint troves querying git.baserock.org, the current outage is resulting in error messages for any deployed troves, and fixing them all to use alternate naming or flipping naming is annoying. | 14:46 |
| persia | robtaylor: Yes. My alternate naive model was to distribute the objects on push receipt and publish via a consensus algorithm. | 14:47 |
| robtaylor | persia: consensus for the refs? | 14:48 |
| Kinnison | Risky with the potential for multiple conflicting pushes | 14:48 |
| persia | And the objects, perhaps with some restrictive promotion logic, so that a ref doesn't become available unless the objects supporting it are available. | 14:49 |
| robtaylor | persia: well you can always fetch missing objects on demand | 14:49 |
| robtaylor | i'd think its more important that everyone agrees on the refs | 14:50 |
| persia | Kinnison: Good point. | 14:51 |
| persia | Aren't there solutions from the filesystem space that work around some of this? Distributed filesystems seem to be abundant, so using those semantics for git doesn't seem terribly awkward. | 14:51 |
| persia | robtaylor: Part of the issue with fetch-on-demand is fetch-from-where: in the absence of a "master", that is poorly defined. | 14:52 |
| Kinnison | persia: a distributed FS backing the git storage might make sense | 14:52 |
| Kinnison | persia: So long as it can be distributed reliably, efficiently, and securely, over the interwebnets | 14:53 |
| Kinnison | persia: otherwise your basket expands only as far as your storage fabric | 14:53 |
| persia | I'd like to see more semantic attachment. | 14:53 |
| persia | I find it convenient to think of git as a file system, and as such, would think the same model would work. | 14:53 |
| persia | But just replacing the backing store for git may cause all sorts of consistency issues, as it relies on the atomicity of git internal operations. | 14:54 |
| franred | I may be simplistic and naive, but can not we have a master/slaves trove configuration which promotes a slave trove to master and the downgrade trove when is up becomes slave? | 14:55 |
| Kinnison | persia: It could be interesting to redo the backing store for git on top of something like zookeeper, and implement the receive-pack and upload-pack protocols on top of that. | 14:56 |
| persia | I'd prefer a strictly consistent store, but hmmm.... | 14:57 |
| persia | franred: Needs a method to cause clients to access the promoted trove, and for the promoted trove to have enabled services. | 14:57 |
| persia | Some things (e.g. lorrying) behave differently for master vs. slave troves. | 14:58 |
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| franred | persia, yes, but we have troves which mirror other troves, blocking in the slave push access, and changing the lorry controller to trove the repositories which master were lorrying, enabling push in the master and becoming git.baserock.org wouldn't work? | 15:02 |
| persia | franred: Depends on the outage time that is acceptable. If an outage is acceptable, then that works. | 15:03 |
| persia | If an outage is not acceptable, then that takes too long. | 15:03 |
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| lachlanmackenzie | I'm looking at some issues for co002 and need to find out a bit more about the way in which Baserock is built - i.e. toolchain/compiler and how it can be adapted for MIPS. Where is the best place to start? | 15:06 |
| persia | lachlanmackenzie: http://wiki.baserock.org/guides/how-to-cross-bootstrap/ | 15:08 |
| lachlanmackenzie | persia: Thanks. | 15:08 |
| persia | The last time someone tried to go through that for MIPS was more than six months ago, so there may have been some adjustments that mean it is out of date. | 15:08 |
| persia | If you encounter problems, please ask, and if you find errors in the docs, please fix. | 15:09 |
| lachlanmackenzie | Will do. | 15:09 |
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| rdale | the address of my kvm vm is 10.0.2.15 and the nameserver is 10.0.2.3, but i can no longer ping the nameserver. what would cause that to happen? i ran cycle.sh this morning and it failed because baserock.org was down - is it something to do with that? | 15:26 |
| rjek | rdale: What are your netmasks and routes? | 15:27 |
| rdale | is that the 'route -n' command? | 15:27 |
| rjek | Or -a | 15:30 |
| persia | or `ip route` | 15:30 |
| rdale | http://paste.baserock.org/cesagalibe | 15:31 |
| rjek | ip has a user-hostile interface, so I never recommend it in support contexts | 15:31 |
| rdale | so the gateway has changed from 10.0.2.3 to 10.0.2.2, but that isn't what isn't what is in /etc/resolv.conf | 15:33 |
| persia | resolv.conf controlls name resolution, but not network topology. | 15:33 |
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| locallycompact | How do you turn the lorry controller timeout off? | 17:11 |
| pedroalvarez | you can increase it, I don't know if you can turn it off | 17:15 |
| locallycompact | where do I do that | 17:20 |
| pedroalvarez | modifying the lorry-controller.conf file in the trove's lorries.git repo | 17:21 |
| pedroalvarez | I'd show you git.baserock.org's example, but it's still down :( | 17:21 |
| paulsherwood | pedroalvarez: can you paste something from another trove, pedroalvarez ? | 17:23 |
| paulsherwood | i can, actually | 17:24 |
| pedroalvarez | this is one example of the file: http://pastebin.com/fKC4nhTS | 17:25 |
| pedroalvarez | in my case 7200 is the timeout | 17:25 |
| pedroalvarez | (2 hours?) | 17:25 |
| locallycompact | perfect, thank you | 17:25 |
| pedroalvarez | you are welcome | 17:25 |
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| straycat | cool, coverage imported ok | 17:39 |
| paulsherwood | :) | 17:45 |
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| pedroalvarez | I have to go now. I'll check later if git.baserock.org is up to see if needs help. | 18:09 |
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| Zara_ | well, I've got lots of documentation done today | 18:21 |
| Zara_ | http://wiki.baserock.org/guides/import-tool/ | 18:21 |
| Zara_ | it's not pretty yet, but it's getting there. | 18:22 |
| straycat | that's coolo | 18:23 |
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