IRC logs for #trustable for Tuesday, 2017-02-21

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paulsherwoodKinnison: any suggestions on least-effort approach to establish a test framework for future content in ?13:49
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Kinnisontesting changes to a mustard? Interesting idea15:32
* Kinnison would have to ponder15:32
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paulsherwoodi'm thinking about the meta-problem, in a way... but on a call. will explain soon15:49
KinnisonSure, if you burble here, I'll see it later :-D15:52
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paulsherwoodso i'm imagining that becomes a kind of in-miniature representation of a trustable project flow in itself16:16
paulsherwoodi.e. we clarify requirements (for the trustable) there... and then create tests to represent validation of the logic in the requirements16:17
paulsherwoodideally the process that we use to operate on the mustard would itself conform to what we know to be required... so there'd be a need for identity, code review, ci, cd etc16:18
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KinnisonI'm not entirely sure how to write tests which validate that there exists software or workflows to satisfy the requirements of trustability16:18
* Kinnison is still fairly new to thinking about all this stuff and hasn't onboarded everything in the project yet16:19
paulsherwoodKinnison: i don't have a thorough answer. but there are some simple partial answers...16:20
paulsherwood- we can confirm valid yaml16:20
paulsherwood- for fields we decide need to be given-when-then, we check that16:21
paulsherwood- maybe there are other meta-tests we can start with, until a brainwave hits :)16:21
paulsherwoodthis is just a straw man after all16:22
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KinnisonThat'd be a way to syntax-check the mustard content, but it wouldn't be any kind of semantic validation16:23
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paulsherwoodi agree... but it's a start?16:25
KinnisonPerhaps.  Though shouldn't that really be a property of Mustard itself (to lint its input) ?16:25
KinnisonLinting the yaml is the major feature of Myrosinase :-)16:26
KinnisonTHough it doesn't understand loom :-)16:26
paulsherwoodwhat is that?16:26
KinnisonMyrosinase is an incomplete alternative implementation of Mustard16:26
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KinnisonI wrote it years ago16:26
Kinnisonwhen i was learning haskell16:26
paulsherwoodoh. i believe there's also a jpohlmann incomplete implementation in closure16:27
KinnisonQuite possibly16:28
KinnisonI started to investigate the complexity of good yaml parsing with location information in Rust16:28
paulsherwoodin any case i'm using these as example tests16:28
KinnisonNod, linting the mustard is a good start16:28
paulsherwoodbuilding them into the tooling defeats my (strange, little) purpose16:28
paulsherwoodmy reasoning is that afaik i there is no model of the workflow we're describing, anywhere in the open16:31
KinnisonOf the whole workflow, absolutely not, it's novel.16:31
paulsherwoodso i'm just trying to cause one to exist, as a means of further thinking about the workflow itself16:31
paulsherwood(and also helping to tighten up the logic/text we've been discussing)16:32
Kinnisonthanks for capturing that16:37
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AlisonChaikenI got a long email over the weekend from someone you likely know, Kinnison.16:47
AlisonChaikenHis name is Jamey Sharp, and he's written a tool called Corrode to automatically translate C to Rust.16:47
* Kinnison is aware of that name, but hasn't met the person16:47
AlisonChaikenCorrode is apparently written in Haskell.    He's looking for automotive support, so I told him to inquire on trustable mailing list.16:48
* paulsherwood wonders how feasible that translation is for realistic established projects16:48
AlisonChaikenI know.    But I hate to discourage people.16:48
AlisonChaikenIt's a good idea!16:48
AlisonChaikenBut still.16:48
paulsherwoodi agree it's a good idea16:48
* AlisonChaiken returns to wrasslin' the build system.16:48
paulsherwoodwhich build system is that, this time? :)16:49
AlisonChaikenRemarkably, we are running Bazel, the open-source version of Google's internal build system.17:15
paulsherwoodooh... how is it?17:16
AlisonChaikenBecause we build our rootfs in the same system that we build our cloud applications, so that we can test them together.17:16
AlisonChaikenLike other build systems, it's intricate and painful.   I'm trying to get swupdate to build, and just kill me now and put me out of my misery.17:16
paulsherwoodi'll quote you :)17:17
AlisonChaikenThis fall I got Qt-GStreamer to build in it, for which I deserve a medal.17:17
* Kinnison isn't sure quoting her will resolve AlisonChaiken's pain17:17
* paulsherwood wishes he could be at
AlisonChaikenpaulsherwood, ahem, have you heard Landley speak before?17:23
* Kinnison wonders if it'll be video'd17:23
paulsherwoodAlisonChaiken: i've seen him on video17:24
AlisonChaikenI've tried listening to his talks in person twice, but he tends to rant about how much he hates the GPL and suchlike.17:25
AlisonChaikenHowever you feel about the GPL, I prefer talks that stick to the announced topic.17:25
* Kinnison 's talks tend to devolve into rants about github :-D17:28
KinnisonAt least, the ones about my git server software do :-P17:28
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