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| jki | #startmeeting CIP IRC weekly meeting | 13:00 |
|---|---|---|
| brlogger | Meeting started Thu Jan 27 13:00:52 2022 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jki. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| brlogger | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
| brlogger | The meeting name has been set to 'cip_irc_weekly_meeting' | 13:00 |
| *** brlogger changes topic to " (Meeting topic: CIP IRC weekly meeting)" | 13:00 | |
| jki | greetings @all! | 13:01 |
| uli | hello | 13:01 |
| masami | hi | 13:01 |
| alicef_ | hi | 13:01 |
| jki | let's wait a bit longer, the circle is still small | 13:04 |
| *** pave1 <pave1!~pavel@88.103.227.165> has joined #cip | 13:05 | |
| pave1 | hi | 13:05 |
| *** pavel <pavel!~pavel@88.103.227.165> has joined #cip | 13:08 | |
| jki | ok, seems we don't get more today | 13:08 |
| jki | #topic AI review | 13:08 |
| *** brlogger changes topic to "AI review (Meeting topic: CIP IRC weekly meeting)" | 13:08 | |
| jki | 1. Merge kernelci support in isar-cip-core - jan | 13:08 |
| jki | currently waiting on a question I had on patch 2 of alicef's series | 13:09 |
| alicef_ | just replayed | 13:09 |
| jki | ok, great | 13:09 |
| jki | then I will wait for v3, rebase my consolidation on top and post that as well | 13:10 |
| alicef_ | As the v2 rebase was greately differing from the first patch series structure the installation script got lost in translation | 13:10 |
| alicef_ | sending the v3 patch | 13:11 |
| jki | I didn't find that in the history myself, but anyway | 13:11 |
| alicef_ | where is your consolidation ? | 13:11 |
| jki | locally only so far | 13:11 |
| alicef_ | ok | 13:11 |
| jki | will send it out once rebased | 13:11 |
| jki | then next topic | 13:12 |
| alicef_ | jki: is all in the mail. just the first patch series is missing versioning | 13:12 |
| alicef_ | as there is no contribution documentation on isar-cip-core | 13:13 |
| alicef_ | and lacking which contribution version I should follow | 13:13 |
| jki | right, that should be fixed | 13:13 |
| jki | ok - move on? | 13:15 |
| jki | 3 | 13:15 |
| jki | 2 | 13:15 |
| jki | 1 | 13:15 |
| jki | 2. Clarify with KernelCI whether CIP maintainers can get accounts - alicef | 13:15 |
| alicef_ | this work is done in collaboration with patersonc | 13:16 |
| alicef_ | patersonc[m] opened a issue on this https://github.com/kernelci/kernelci-core/issues/983 14days ago | 13:16 |
| alicef_ | but the issue is still in the todo list | 13:17 |
| jki | how needs to do something now? | 13:17 |
| alicef_ | patersonc[m] said to write a PR but I didn't see it yet | 13:19 |
| alicef_ | s/said/proposed/ | 13:19 |
| jki | then we should transfer the AI to him ;) | 13:19 |
| alicef_ | jki: actually it was already | 13:21 |
| jki | ok, my bad | 13:22 |
| jki | anything else on this? | 13:22 |
| jki | 3 | 13:22 |
| alicef_ | please check last week meeting https://lists.cip-project.org/g/cip-dev/message/7470 | 13:22 |
| jki | 2 | 13:22 |
| jki | ok | 13:23 |
| jki | let's clarify the state with him in the next meeting | 13:23 |
| jki | #topic Kernel maintenance updates | 13:23 |
| *** brlogger changes topic to "Kernel maintenance updates (Meeting topic: CIP IRC weekly meeting)" | 13:23 | |
| uli | reviewed 5.10.94 candidate patches | 13:24 |
| pavel | I was reviewing 5.10.94. | 13:24 |
| masami | there was 4 new CVEs in this week. | 13:24 |
| masami | I also replied to https://gitlab.com/cip-project/cip-kernel/cip-kernel-sec/-/issues/10 | 13:24 |
| masami | This issue describes patch for CVE-2021-4203 needs a commit f06bc03 to avoid null pointer dereference bug if DEBUG_CREDENTIALS is enabled. | 13:25 |
| masami | stable kernels and cip kernels are already applied the commit. | 13:27 |
| pavel | Should we discuss self-maintainance of 4.4.X? | 13:30 |
| jki | what aspects would require discussion? | 13:32 |
| alicef_ | I thought that was the main discussion of this meeting | 13:32 |
| *** alicef_ is now known as alicef | 13:32 | |
| pavel | Well... Do we maintain everything or just the hardware CIP boards have? | 13:33 |
| pavel | And if everything, should we attempt to be assigned 4.4-stable tree? | 13:33 |
| jki | right, that needs a decision | 13:33 |
| alicef | what about commons parts ? memory, filesystem | 13:33 |
| pavel | alicef: We need to do common parts. No discussion neccessary there. | 13:34 |
| jki | so far, the story was: everything that is enabled in the superset of our configs | 13:34 |
| alicef | pavel: I think so | 13:35 |
| alicef | but "just hardware" is ambiguos. | 13:35 |
| pavel | jki: yes, our configs are main focus. | 13:36 |
| alicef | just wanted to be sure that also commons part are into "just hardware" | 13:36 |
| pavel | jki: But we have basically just 2 boards in our 4.4.X testing. We build for a bit more. | 13:36 |
| jki | doing more is one thing, committing on doing more is another | 13:37 |
| jki | my concerns are about that commitment, explicit or implicit | 13:37 |
| jki | we need the manage our limited resources in the end | 13:38 |
| pavel | Well, we'd get implicit commitment, yes. | 13:39 |
| pavel | But we can still ask people to bisect when they encounter problem, that's how stable works. | 13:39 |
| pavel | And we'd probably get testing from the community. (And some exposure/advertising). | 13:40 |
| jki | we'd PROVIDE implicit commitment by saying we host a complete 4.4.y-stable | 13:40 |
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| jki | but I can't assess the effort | 13:40 |
| pavel | Yes, agreed, we would. | 13:40 |
| jki | while I would possibly have to provide answers to the members if they want to know that | 13:40 |
| pavel | We'd have react to emails and if someone bisects bad patch we'd have to revert it. | 13:41 |
| pavel | OTOH we would get community testing. | 13:41 |
| pavel | https://gitlab.com/cip-project/cip-kernel/linux-cip/-/pipelines/448669210 | 13:41 |
| jki | I see the point | 13:41 |
| pavel | ...we are currently testing on single arm board and x86 qemu. | 13:41 |
| alicef | kernelci is also testing 4.4 cip | 13:42 |
| pavel | ...but people probably expect arm64 to work etc... | 13:42 |
| jki | and there we already have a difference, right | 13:43 |
| alicef | https://linux.kernelci.org/build/cip/branch/linux-4.4.y-cip-rt/kernel/v4.4.296-cip67-rt37/ | 13:43 |
| alicef | 187 builds | 13:43 |
| alicef | and testing on most of accessible kernelci boards | 13:44 |
| pavel | I see pros: more exposure, better testing, outside people more willing to help us. | 13:44 |
| pavel | And there are cons: more work. | 13:44 |
| jki | before asking the Linux community to give us the 4.4-stable tree in the name if CIP, we should ask our TSC for an approval | 13:44 |
| jki | and they will ask us to provide at least an estimate on that | 13:45 |
| jki | that "more work" | 13:45 |
| jki | or that "saved work due to contributions" | 13:45 |
| pavel | jki: I guess so. But we have to ask fairly quickly as taking over 4.4-stable will be hard once the tree closes. | 13:46 |
| jki | why will it be hard after that? | 13:46 |
| jki | this is a complex question, and I'm concern we won't get a quick answer | 13:47 |
| pavel | jki: I see two possibilities: a) Greg is right that noone cares about 4.4.X any more. I believe people will still test it if we provide it, but would not expect too much extra work. | 13:47 |
| alicef | on the other side we also have Gregkh opinion in merit | 13:47 |
| pavel | b) someone besides -cip still uses 4.4. We'll get bugreports but we are also likely to get external help. | 13:48 |
| pavel | jki: Well, once tree closes, it will be marked at closed, and people will be hard-pressed to move away from it. | 13:48 |
| pavel | Backlog will accumulate, so it will not be easy "pick where Greg left" any more | 13:49 |
| pavel | Tree will be marked as unmainained at kernel.org. | 13:49 |
| pavel | Agreed this is a complex question :-(. | 13:49 |
| pavel | Testers will move away from the tree once it is marked as closed. | 13:49 |
| jki | pavel: did you already reach out to Greg and carefully ask whether he would hand over at all? | 13:49 |
| jki | not saying that we decided to do that already | 13:50 |
| jki | then we may gain time - or close the topic because he refuses to do that | 13:50 |
| pavel | (let me search that). | 13:50 |
| alicef | greg replay on CIP maintainance: That is up to them to do, I wish them well, I think it is a loosing game | 13:51 |
| alicef | and one that is going to cost more money than they realize. | 13:51 |
| alicef | so if I understand the first part correctly. Greg say that is up to CIP to decide. | 13:52 |
| pavel | alicef: do you have links handy? I tried to "carefully ask", but have too much mail and can't find the right one now. | 13:52 |
| jki | was that on our CIP tree or on the official stable tree? | 13:52 |
| alicef | https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/YehSi9Bati3sNado@kroah.com/ | 13:52 |
| alicef | link of the full Gregkh replay: https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/YehSi9Bati3sNado@kroah.com/ | 13:52 |
| alicef | also twitter feed on the issue: https://twitter.com/gregkh/status/1484052284308865025 | 13:53 |
| pavel | Thank you, that's the one. You can see my message in the parent. | 13:54 |
| jki | reading Greg's reply, he is only referrring to our tree and to our way of maintenance (narrow) | 13:54 |
| jki | so, he is actually confirming the concerns regarding to promise "we just continue" | 13:54 |
| jki | which we can't | 13:54 |
| pavel | Well, yes, it appears so. I did not want to do more explaining/discussion without checking with you. | 13:56 |
| jki | my stomach says: better direct the remaining users to our tree and make them contribute there if they see value | 13:56 |
| jki | we can advertise that, but we should also explain the limited scope | 13:56 |
| jki | we could even provide a "vanilla" stable tree without backports as well | 13:57 |
| jki | but under a different url to clarify that it is different | 13:57 |
| pavel | I believe that would be good idea, yes. | 13:57 |
| jki | differently maintained | 13:57 |
| pavel | But I don't think we'll get people testing it the way they are testing 4.4-stable. | 13:58 |
| jki | is that testing coupled to the URL or the scope of (committed) maintenance? | 13:59 |
| alicef | Gentoo is actually removing 4.4 and also 4.9 kernel | 14:00 |
| pavel | Its just inertia, probably. They have always tested 4.4.x so they'll likely continue if it is on same url. | 14:00 |
| alicef | as they are already not enough used anymore | 14:01 |
| pavel | It seems ~3 projects (+ us) are testing 4.4.X-rc candidates. | 14:02 |
| jki | we need active testers in the end, those who also report when the find something | 14:03 |
| jki | make them aware of what we do, how we do that, and the active and interested ones should follow | 14:04 |
| alicef | jki: but on what boards ? cip is willing to accept bugs also amd64? | 14:04 |
| pavel | I agree it is not easy. I believe it will be easier to get people to cooperate if we act as stable maintainers. | 14:06 |
| jki | let's say: if there are active testers on arm64 who are willing to submit reports and solutions for arm64, we take them | 14:06 |
| jki | but we will not invest more than that - we don't have the mandate by CIP | 14:06 |
| jki | if users want to change that: become a CIP member an vote for it! | 14:07 |
| jki | I think the key is being transparent, not overpromising anything, rather accidentally over-delivering from time to time | 14:08 |
| pavel | Ok, so: | 14:08 |
| pavel | a) Have we decided at maintaining 4.4-stable and 4.4-stable-rt separately? | 14:09 |
| pavel | b) Will we do some kind of announcement when Greg anounnces 4.4.x closes? | 14:09 |
| pavel | b1) Who does the announcing? :-) | 14:09 |
| pavel | c) Does it make sense to ask CIP TSC if we want to become stable maintainers? | 14:10 |
| jki | I think we will not be able to sell c) to the TSC | 14:11 |
| jki | at least I feel like I would lack enough arguments | 14:11 |
| jki | doing a) in a separate tree, explaining via b) how that works, may be worth to present to the TSC | 14:12 |
| pavel | Ok, that makes sense. | 14:12 |
| jki | the announcement should be sent by the CIP kernel maintainer(s) | 14:13 |
| jki | on the wording, we can work together | 14:13 |
| pavel | Ok, that works for me. | 14:14 |
| jki | I will try to present that idea on next week TSC call | 14:15 |
| pavel | Thank you! :-) | 14:15 |
| jki | ok, we are overtime :) | 14:16 |
| jki | anything else here? | 14:16 |
| pavel | Yep, sorry about that :-) | 14:16 |
| jki | np, it's an important topic | 14:16 |
| jki | move on in... | 14:17 |
| jki | 3 | 14:17 |
| jki | 2 | 14:17 |
| jki | 1 | 14:17 |
| jki | #topic Kernel testing | 14:17 |
| *** brlogger changes topic to "Kernel testing (Meeting topic: CIP IRC weekly meeting)" | 14:17 | |
| alicef | I updated some KernelCI patches | 14:18 |
| alicef | one that is needed for enabling lab-cip devices not yet enabled on kernelci | 14:18 |
| alicef | but some of them are offline/not working | 14:18 |
| jki | denx-lab? | 14:18 |
| alicef | so I will discuss about putting them online with patersonc[m] | 14:19 |
| alicef | jki: is not only one | 14:19 |
| jki | ok | 14:19 |
| alicef | https://github.com/kernelci/kernelci-core/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+label%3Acip | 14:19 |
| alicef | but yes also denx-lab | 14:20 |
| alicef | other PR refactor is about preempt_rt | 14:20 |
| alicef | I see in staging that we we are already getting rt test results correctly | 14:21 |
| alicef | so will be enabled after the next review from kernelci | 14:21 |
| jki | ok, great | 14:22 |
| alicef | https://staging.kernelci.org/test/job/cip/branch/linux-5.10.y-cip-rt/kernel/v5.10.83-cip1-rt1/ | 14:22 |
| alicef | baseline-cip-nfs is the test with isar-cip-core by the way | 14:23 |
| alicef | that's all for me | 14:24 |
| jki | thanks | 14:24 |
| jki | anything else? | 14:24 |
| jki | 3 | 14:25 |
| jki | 2 | 14:25 |
| jki | 1 | 14:25 |
| jki | #topic AOB | 14:25 |
| *** brlogger changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: CIP IRC weekly meeting)" | 14:25 | |
| jki | anyone anything here? | 14:25 |
| jki | 3 | 14:26 |
| jki | 2 | 14:26 |
| jki | 1 | 14:26 |
| jki | #endmeeting | 14:26 |
| brlogger | Meeting ended Thu Jan 27 14:26:52 2022 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:26 |
| brlogger | Minutes: https://irclogs.baserock.org/meetings/cip/2022/01/cip.2022-01-27-13.00.html | 14:26 |
| brlogger | Minutes (text): https://irclogs.baserock.org/meetings/cip/2022/01/cip.2022-01-27-13.00.txt | 14:26 |
| brlogger | Log: https://irclogs.baserock.org/meetings/cip/2022/01/cip.2022-01-27-13.00.log.html | 14:26 |
| *** brlogger changes topic to "Civil Infrastructure Platform Project. Find the logs at https://irclogs.baserock.org/cip/" | 14:26 | |
| pavel | Thank you, and stay safe! :-) | 14:27 |
| jki | thank you all, specifically for the extra time ;) | 14:27 |
| uli | you're welcome :) | 14:27 |
| jki | have a nice day! | 14:27 |
| alicefm | Thx | 14:27 |
| masami | thank you | 14:27 |
| pavel | Nice snowstorm outside, have a better day! :-) | 14:27 |
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