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| szlin | #startmeeting CIP IRC weekly meeting | 09:00 |
|---|---|---|
| brlogger | Meeting started Thu Aug 8 09:00:02 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is szlin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 09:00 |
| brlogger | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 09:00 |
| brlogger | The meeting name has been set to 'cip_irc_weekly_meeting' | 09:00 |
| *** brlogger changes topic to " (Meeting topic: CIP IRC weekly meeting)" | 09:00 | |
| szlin | #topic rollcall | 09:00 |
| *** brlogger changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: CIP IRC weekly meeting)" | 09:00 | |
| szlin | please say hi if you're around | 09:00 |
| patersonc | hi | 09:00 |
| *** yamamodo has joined #cip | 09:00 | |
| iwamatsu | hi | 09:00 |
| yamamodo | hi | 09:00 |
| kazu | hi | 09:00 |
| wagi | hi | 09:00 |
| szlin | #topic AI review | 09:00 |
| *** brlogger changes topic to "AI review (Meeting topic: CIP IRC weekly meeting)" | 09:00 | |
| pave1 | hi | 09:01 |
| szlin | 1. Work out a solution for LAVA master backups - patersonc | 09:01 |
| patersonc | No update. Probably won't be done for a little while. It's on my tasklist, I'm not sure if it's worth removing from these actions? | 09:01 |
| szlin | Ok, I will remove it. Please notice me if you're ready. | 09:02 |
| patersonc | Thanks | 09:02 |
| szlin | 2. Provide the cases to cip-testing to build up the test environment - Iwamatsu-san | 09:02 |
| iwamatsu | szlin: I am working about this. | 09:03 |
| szlin | iwamatsu: thank you | 09:03 |
| szlin | 3. Ask cip-dev which configurations need testing - patersonc | 09:03 |
| szlin | patersonc: I will reply you after the meeting. | 09:03 |
| patersonc | Action is in progress. People beginning to reply now | 09:04 |
| szlin | patersonc: thank you | 09:04 |
| szlin | 4. Confirm we can enable high-res timers for every board - pavel | 09:04 |
| pave1 | I sent an email to the list. No replies so far. | 09:05 |
| szlin | pave1: It seems like there is no objection so far. | 09:05 |
| patersonc | I have no objections :) | 09:05 |
| iwamatsu | I have no objections too. | 09:05 |
| szlin | pave1: +1 | 09:05 |
| pave1 | :-). Ok, good. Looks like "enable it and see if anything breaks" is the way to go. | 09:05 |
| szlin | Do you want to discuss with Chris in cyclictest after the meeting? | 09:06 |
| szlin | IIRC, you mentioned you need some assistance | 09:07 |
| pave1 | We can talk, but I don't think I'm ready to do much at this moment. | 09:07 |
| szlin | pave1: got it. | 09:07 |
| szlin | 5. Add support for PowerPC (4.4 Toshiba config) - patersonc | 09:07 |
| szlin | patersonc: this AI should be closed | 09:07 |
| patersonc | This is done, or at least ready to be merged. However Toshiba have said they don't need their powerpc config anymore :) | 09:08 |
| patersonc | So please close | 09:08 |
| szlin | patersonc: thank you for your rapid development | 09:08 |
| szlin | 6. Test LTS (pre)releases directly - patersonc | 09:08 |
| patersonc | No progress. May be a few weeks away tbh, I'm a bit busy atm | 09:08 |
| szlin | 7. Discuss the primary repository in CIP kernel development (kernel.org or gitlab) - kernel team | 09:09 |
| szlin | I've sent email to discuss this topic. | 09:09 |
| szlin | pave1: bwh ^ Please provide your feedback when you're available. | 09:09 |
| szlin | 8. Review and merge "gitlab-ci.yml" - pavel | 09:09 |
| patersonc | Done | 09:10 |
| patersonc | Thanks pave1 | 09:10 |
| szlin | thanks. | 09:10 |
| szlin | #topic Kernel maintenance updates | 09:10 |
| *** brlogger changes topic to "Kernel maintenance updates (Meeting topic: CIP IRC weekly meeting)" | 09:10 | |
| szlin | iwamatsu: pave1 do you have any update on kernel maintenance | 09:11 |
| pave1 | I've reviewed v4.19.64 and v4.19.65. It is interesting how different can the different releases be. | 09:11 |
| iwamatsu | szlin: I have no update. | 09:12 |
| szlin | pave1: iwamatsu thank you | 09:12 |
| szlin | any other topics? | 09:12 |
| patersonc | o/ | 09:12 |
| szlin | patersonc: please go ahead | 09:12 |
| patersonc | I hit a build issue with one of the configs: https://lists.cip-project.org/pipermail/cip-dev/2019-August/002816.html | 09:13 |
| patersonc | It would be good if someone could take a look. | 09:13 |
| pave1 | Yup, sorry about that. Yes, I'll take a look. | 09:13 |
| patersonc | Thanks | 09:13 |
| szlin | pave1: thank you | 09:14 |
| szlin | 3 | 09:14 |
| szlin | 2 | 09:14 |
| pave1 | Actually, | 09:14 |
| szlin | 1 | 09:14 |
| pave1 | this is something we should discuss. | 09:14 |
| pave1 | -stable rules say "for serious bugs only". | 09:14 |
| pave1 | [They are not being followed by the -stable team, but that's different topic.] | 09:15 |
| pave1 | It even has a list of bugs it considers serious, and warnings are ... not bugs in the first place and definitely not on the list. | 09:15 |
| pave1 | So my tendency would be to deal with warnings in a simple way that does not risk creating new problems... | 09:16 |
| patersonc | Sure | 09:16 |
| szlin | pave1: Some unsuitable patches were merged by AUTOSEL mechanism | 09:16 |
| pave1 | ...which would be "turn off -Werror" in this particular case. | 09:16 |
| pave1 | I just wanted to confirm that this is okay with you? | 09:16 |
| pave1 | szlin: Yes, AUTOSEL is by far the worst offender. | 09:17 |
| patersonc | Note that this issue is only with the -rt branch, so perhaps Werror was enabled by the RT project? | 09:17 |
| iwamatsu | We need to decide on default compiler's options. | 09:18 |
| pave1 | patersonc: I'll need to take a detailed look, maybe it is just an config issue. | 09:18 |
| patersonc | Thanks | 09:18 |
| szlin | #action Discuss and make a decision on default compiler's options - kernel team | 09:19 |
| pave1 | patersonc: Anyway my point is that -Werror is good for development, but not good for keeping branch stable, especially in presence of different compiler versions. | 09:19 |
| patersonc | pave1: Sure | 09:19 |
| patersonc | Do we need a way to formalising reporting issues like this from the CI process? Or are emails to cip-dev enough? | 09:19 |
| iwamatsu | indeed. | 09:19 |
| pave1 | patersonc: I believe cip-dev is ok. | 09:19 |
| patersonc | Okay | 09:19 |
| szlin | any objections? | 09:20 |
| szlin | #agree The CI issues should send to cip-dev mailing list | 09:20 |
| szlin | #topic Kernel testing | 09:20 |
| *** brlogger changes topic to "Kernel testing (Meeting topic: CIP IRC weekly meeting)" | 09:20 | |
| szlin | patersonc: the floor is yours | 09:20 |
| patersonc | #info linux-cip-ci has been moved to cip-project/cip-testing | 09:20 |
| patersonc | #info Kanban board created to keep track of pending tasks for linux-cip-ci. Please feel free to make requests/pick up tasks. | 09:20 |
| patersonc | #link https://gitlab.com/cip-project/cip-testing/linux-cip-ci/-/boards | 09:21 |
| patersonc | #info The main CIP Kernel branches are now build testing all of the CIP configs (apart from the RT ones). | 09:21 |
| patersonc | #info Started to add some wiki content for the LAVA & CI setups. | 09:21 |
| patersonc | That's it from me this week. Any comments? | 09:21 |
| szlin | 3 | 09:21 |
| szlin | 2 | 09:21 |
| szlin | 1 | 09:21 |
| szlin | #topic CIP Core | 09:22 |
| *** brlogger changes topic to "CIP Core (Meeting topic: CIP IRC weekly meeting)" | 09:22 | |
| kazu | No techical updates from the last TSC meeting | 09:22 |
| kazu | I'm refining the package decision process document based on members' feedbacks | 09:22 |
| kazu | then will release rev2 soon | 09:22 |
| szlin | thanks | 09:22 |
| szlin | any other points? | 09:22 |
| szlin | 3 | 09:22 |
| kazu | I've just sent email to cip-members | 09:22 |
| patersonc | o/ | 09:22 |
| kazu | about this topic | 09:22 |
| szlin | patersonc: yes, please | 09:23 |
| kazu | If you have any opinions about the update for rev2, please reply | 09:23 |
| kazu | patersonc please go ahead | 09:23 |
| patersonc | Were any decisions made with regards to compiler versions etc. in the end? | 09:23 |
| kazu | not yet in cip core, but in toshiba... | 09:23 |
| kazu | at least, CIP will support the following version combinations: 4.4 + stretch, 4.19 + stretch, 4.19 + buster | 09:24 |
| kazu | So, the above kernel versions should be tested with gcc of each Debian version | 09:24 |
| wagi | patersonc: (LAVA & CI setup): I'll cleanup my build/submit scripts for -rt soon. Most stuff I needed from test-definitions are now upstream. Last missing feature is 'background command'. Still in discussion. After that all my stuff is ready to be abused :) | 09:25 |
| patersonc | wagi: Thanks | 09:25 |
| patersonc | kazu: Will this testing happen as part of cip-core testing? | 09:25 |
| patersonc | kazu: Or do I need to build each Kernel config with multiple GCC versions? | 09:25 |
| szlin | kazu: so we can assume that the gcc version will be 8.3 | 09:25 |
| szlin | 6.3 (stretch( and 8.3 (buster) | 09:26 |
| kazu | patersonc please give me time to decide where we do that | 09:26 |
| szlin | kazu: got it, thanks. | 09:26 |
| patersonc | kazu: Okay. I'll let you pick up the action :) | 09:26 |
| patersonc | Thanks | 09:26 |
| szlin | any other topics? | 09:26 |
| szlin | 3 | 09:26 |
| szlin | 2 | 09:26 |
| szlin | 1 | 09:26 |
| szlin | #topic Software update | 09:27 |
| *** brlogger changes topic to "Software update (Meeting topic: CIP IRC weekly meeting)" | 09:27 | |
| szlin | kazu: do you or Daniel have any update on this topic? | 09:27 |
| kazu | CIP wiki has been updated | 09:27 |
| kazu | The loadmap will be released soon | 09:27 |
| szlin | kazu: thanks. | 09:27 |
| szlin | any other points? | 09:27 |
| kazu | roadmap | 09:28 |
| szlin | 3 | 09:28 |
| szlin | 2 | 09:28 |
| szlin | 1 | 09:28 |
| szlin | #topic AOB | 09:28 |
| *** brlogger changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: CIP IRC weekly meeting)" | 09:28 | |
| szlin | Any other business? | 09:28 |
| szlin | 3 | 09:28 |
| szlin | 2 | 09:28 |
| szlin | 1 | 09:28 |
| szlin | #endmeeting | 09:28 |
| brlogger | Meeting ended Thu Aug 8 09:28:41 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 09:28 |
| brlogger | Minutes: https://irclogs.baserock.org/meetings/cip/2019/08/cip.2019-08-08-09.00.html | 09:28 |
| brlogger | Minutes (text): https://irclogs.baserock.org/meetings/cip/2019/08/cip.2019-08-08-09.00.txt | 09:28 |
| brlogger | Log: https://irclogs.baserock.org/meetings/cip/2019/08/cip.2019-08-08-09.00.log.html | 09:28 |
| *** brlogger changes topic to "Civil Infrastructure Platform Project. Find the logs at https://irclogs.baserock.org/cip/" | 09:28 | |
| szlin | thank you all | 09:28 |
| szlin | wagi: hi!!! (greeting | 09:28 |
| kazu | thank you | 09:28 |
| pave1 | thank you! | 09:28 |
| iwamatsu | thank you | 09:28 |
| patersonc | Thanks szlin | 09:29 |
| yamamodo | thank you | 09:29 |
| szlin | wagi: I've sent bunch of questions to ask the maintenance of realtime kernel | 09:29 |
| wagi | szlin: hey. Got your emails. sorry for the delay, will try to answer today | 09:30 |
| pave1 | wagi: BTW thanks for all the help. | 09:30 |
| wagi | you're welcome :) | 09:30 |
| wagi | I should be more around from now on. | 09:31 |
| pave1 | I did not get the python to run, but I was able to release a kernel, and I believe I'll be able to do it again :-). | 09:31 |
| wagi | is this the stable-rt-tools script? | 09:31 |
| szlin | wagi: thank you very much | 09:31 |
| wagi | szlin: glad to help out :) | 09:32 |
| pave1 | wagi: Yes. It requires newer python AFAICT... and I should really know how to do stuff manually before I use the automation. | 09:32 |
| pave1 | I have local access to some kind of socfpga, so I can also do basic testing. | 09:32 |
| wagi | ah, yeah, it might be some dependency to Python 3.4 or even higher | 09:33 |
| wagi | maybe adding some unit testing would be cool | 09:34 |
| pave1 | What I wanted to ask... The socfpga board has say 15 usec average latency, 85 usec latency under normal workloads. | 09:34 |
| pave1 | Those numbers seem more or less consistent with what rest of the world is seeing. | 09:35 |
| pave1 | But I can see 255 usec latencies if I intentionally overload the system. | 09:36 |
| pave1 | wagi: Would that be considered a problem? | 09:36 |
| wagi | what type of cpu? armv7? | 09:37 |
| pave1 | armv7, yes. | 09:37 |
| wagi | single core? | 09:37 |
| pave1 | Dual core, I believe | 09:37 |
| wagi | my expierence with bbb is that a single core armv7 tends to have a heigh latency value under load compared to idle | 09:38 |
| wagi | e.g. idle 20us, under load 180us is not that far off | 09:38 |
| wagi | depends a lot of the workload | 09:38 |
| pave1 | wagi: Well, its more like 40usec idle, 80usec kernel build. | 09:39 |
| wagi | with the iwg20m dual cpu I saw also big latency peaks but not not so high as with a bbb | 09:39 |
| pave1 | 250usec if I do make -j build of kernel, with OOM killer eventually triggering. | 09:40 |
| wagi | let me check the values on my system, I tend to forget those things :L) | 09:40 |
| pave1 | I kind of think that higher latencies are expected with make -j, but wanted to make sure :-). | 09:40 |
| wagi | so for a bbb, I have 17us idle and 129us with hackbench over 5 minutes | 09:41 |
| wagi | avarage around 55us | 09:41 |
| wagi | depends a bit. do you use a rootfs backed by flash? | 09:43 |
| wagi | for example all my system are using a rootfs via nfs | 09:43 |
| pave1 | wagi: Ok, bbb numbers are not that different. | 09:43 |
| pave1 | wagi: I'm using SD card here. | 09:43 |
| wagi | that means I stress more the netwoking stack | 09:43 |
| wagi | that could be an source of problems | 09:44 |
| wagi | there are a few very cool tracing tools for IO | 09:44 |
| patersonc | Won't that be the same for all of the tests done in the RT LAVA lab? | 09:44 |
| wagi | good point, if you have the same hardware setup and some kernels show how values than I would also point to the kernel | 09:45 |
| wagi | s/how/high/ | 09:45 |
| pave1 | wagi: Is "overloading the machine to the point of OOM killer triggering" considered fair test of -rt kernel? | 09:46 |
| wagi | hehe, don't think so | 09:46 |
| wagi | as soon you have OOM going around it will surely have a negative impact on rt | 09:47 |
| wagi | as soon we hit any sort of allocation path we have a problem | 09:47 |
| pave1 | wagi: Ok, I thought so. I just wanted to verify :-). | 09:48 |
| wagi | not sure what OOM exactly does, but sounds highly dangerous :) | 09:49 |
| pave1 | wagi: Oh, sorry. "Out of memory". | 09:50 |
| wagi | I was referring to the implementation of OOM. It got several rewrites and improvements from the Google and FB guys over the last few years. It is something non trivial which is something dangerous in my eyes :) | 09:51 |
| pave1 | wagi: Selecting right proccess to kill is not easy, agreed. And if it selects the realtime task, that means the task now failed. | 09:52 |
| pave1 | Ok, I should go, bye for now! | 09:55 |
| wagi | cuy | 09:57 |
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