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| szlin | iwamatsu: ping | 06:23 |
|---|---|---|
| szlin | iwamatsu: would you use the same methodology to manage 4.19 kernel source? | 06:43 |
| szlin | Both Ben and Daniel created *-rebase branch [1] | 06:44 |
| szlin | [1] https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/cip/linux-cip.git/ | 06:44 |
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| sangorrin | hi! | 07:59 |
| patersonc | Mornin | 08:03 |
| sangorrin | I forgot the meeting time changed, 48 minutes wait ;) | 08:13 |
| szlin | :D | 08:16 |
| sangorrin | I'll write a script to classify the failed patches I sent in the meantime | 08:18 |
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| szlin | sangorrin: Before discussing the update mechanism, I suggest we need to define our scope of RFS. | 08:34 |
| iwamatsu | szlin: yes, i will use same methodlogy to 4.19. | 08:40 |
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| sangorrin | szlin: yes, today I want to discuss a few questions to ask each member about software updates | 08:47 |
| szlin | iwamatsu: thanks. | 08:47 |
| rajm | the logger is present but https://irclogs.baserock.org/cip/ hasn't updated since Monday? ironfoot ? | 08:49 |
| szlin | sangorrin: BTW, armel won't be an official architecture in Debian 10. | 08:49 |
| szlin | The status for armhf support is unknown. | 08:50 |
| szlin | [1] https://release.debian.org/buster/arch_qualify.html | 08:50 |
| sangorrin | humm and armhf has a ? | 08:51 |
| szlin | rajm: perhaps the service broke again. | 08:51 |
| sangorrin | that sucks | 08:51 |
| sangorrin | what does it mean official? | 08:52 |
| sangorrin | https://packages.debian.org/buster/armel/ is there | 08:52 |
| sangorrin | and https://packages.debian.org/buster/armhf/ here | 08:53 |
| ironfoot | rajm: thanks for the heads up, will look into it | 08:54 |
| rajm | ta! | 08:55 |
| patersonc | Hi | 09:00 |
| szlin | #startmeeting | 09:00 |
| szlin | #roll call | 09:00 |
| szlin | please say hi if you're here | 09:00 |
| gavinlai | hi | 09:00 |
| bwh | hi | 09:00 |
| sangorrin | hi | 09:00 |
| patersonc | hi | 09:00 |
| rajm | hi | 09:00 |
| iwamatsu | hi | 09:01 |
| szlin | #topic kernel maintenance updates | 09:01 |
| szlin | === 4.4.156 reviewing === | 09:01 |
| szlin | ACK - af25dc4cf354 ("scripts: modpost: check memory allocation results") | 09:01 |
| szlin | https://wiki.linuxfoundation.org/civilinfrastructureplatform/linux-4.4.y#section44156 | 09:01 |
| szlin | ========================= | 09:01 |
| szlin | Nobuhiro created development branch of CIP kernel for 4.19.y on git.kernel.org | 09:01 |
| szlin | https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/cip/linux-cip.git/log/?h=linux-4.19.y-cip | 09:01 |
| szlin | Daniel sent out some failed patches in 4.4, and I had put them into wiki. | 09:02 |
| szlin | https://wiki.linuxfoundation.org/civilinfrastructureplatform/linux-4.4-failed-patches | 09:02 |
| vidda | hi | 09:02 |
| sangorrin | yes, i just wrote a script to classify them.. will update the wiki soon | 09:02 |
| szlin | sangorrin: I had categorized with those patches | 09:02 |
| szlin | feel free to modify it :) | 09:02 |
| sangorrin | yes, but the script is checking the git log to make sure the current status of those patches | 09:03 |
| iwamatsu | I have a comment about 4.19 LTS. | 09:03 |
| szlin | sangorrin: awesome, could you share the script via gitlab-cip? | 09:03 |
| sangorrin | my previous list was based on the e-mails only, without any checks | 09:03 |
| patersonc | sangorrin: Can you share the script? | 09:03 |
| sangorrin | sure | 09:03 |
| patersonc | Thanks | 09:04 |
| szlin | sangorrin: thanks! | 09:04 |
| szlin | iwamatsu: yes, please | 09:04 |
| iwamatsu | We have not announced the next kernel yet. I think that we should talk about this in TSC. | 09:04 |
| patersonc | Agreed. It would be good to get a news item/blog post on the website | 09:05 |
| patersonc | Even if for now our branch=LTS. | 09:05 |
| szlin | #action Discuss the official CIP kernel in TSC meeting | 09:06 |
| szlin | and we can have the announcement afterwards. | 09:07 |
| iwamatsu | And I could not find an announcement form Greg on this time's LTS version decision. Please let me know if you know. | 09:07 |
| patersonc | I saw an article on linux.com. But nothing from Greg. | 09:08 |
| szlin | Me neither | 09:08 |
| sangorrin | https://www.kernel.org/category/releases.html | 09:08 |
| iwamatsu | szlin patersonc: thanks | 09:09 |
| sangorrin | if it's there it's official | 09:09 |
| szlin | Nothing from his blog so far, he was used to announce the version of LTS via his blog. | 09:09 |
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| szlin | http://www.kroah.com/log/ | 09:09 |
| iwamatsu | szlin: and G+ :) | 09:09 |
| iwamatsu | but I could not find form G+. | 09:10 |
| szlin | bwh: Did you get the related news? | 09:10 |
| bwh | https://lwn.net/Articles/769110/ "... given that this is going to be one of | 09:10 |
| bwh | the "Long Term" kernels ..." | 09:10 |
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| szlin | bwh: thanks. | 09:10 |
| szlin | any other points? | 09:11 |
| iwamatsu | bwh: thanks | 09:11 |
| patersonc | o/ | 09:12 |
| patersonc | For patches to be backported to the CIP Kernel, do they need to be in a full mainline release? Or is an RC okay? | 09:12 |
| bwh | I would say an RC is OK, as that's consistent with stable | 09:13 |
| patersonc | Thanks bwh. Is that okay with you iwamatsu? | 09:13 |
| iwamatsu | me too.I think that there is no problem if it is merged into Linus's tree. | 09:13 |
| patersonc | Thank you! | 09:14 |
| szlin | any other points? | 09:15 |
| szlin | 3 | 09:15 |
| szlin | 2 | 09:15 |
| szlin | 1 | 09:15 |
| szlin | #topic kernel testing | 09:16 |
| rajm | Still running the BBB and iwg20m health checks regularly | 09:16 |
| rajm | Tidied up a few more open issues and moved some of their content into 'Known issues' on the wiki | 09:16 |
| rajm | thanks! | 09:16 |
| patersonc | Thanks | 09:16 |
| patersonc | rajm: Have you/or anyone built the CIP Kernel for QEMU? | 09:16 |
| rajm | I haven't - and don't know any further | 09:17 |
| patersonc | Anyone else? | 09:17 |
| bwh | I regularly build for arm and x86 on QEMU | 09:17 |
| sangorrin | patersonc: as part of CIP core, yes | 09:18 |
| patersonc | Okay. Any complications in building for QEMU? Or should it be trivial? | 09:18 |
| sangorrin | https://gitlab.com/cip-project/cip-core/tree/master/deby/poky/meta-cip-qemux86-64 | 09:19 |
| szlin | we build kernel on x86/64 (usually) or armhf/64 | 09:19 |
| patersonc | Okay. Thank you all. We'll ping if we get stuck. At the moment the lab is building v4.18. We obviously need to change this to CIP. | 09:19 |
| bwh | Just a matter of matching up the QEMU model, the device tree and the drivers enabled | 09:20 |
| bwh | I can give a recipe after the meeting | 09:20 |
| patersonc | Thanks bwh! | 09:20 |
| patersonc | I've got 2 more points... | 09:20 |
| patersonc | 1) Does anyone have any feedback/queries about the test infrastructure proposal from the TSC this week? | 09:21 |
| sangorrin | yes | 09:21 |
| szlin | patersonc: WIP, I could have the discussion in these days. | 09:21 |
| sangorrin | 1) will we use that infrastructure for the kernel only, or for cip core base layer as well? | 09:22 |
| patersonc | sangorrin: I'm open for it being for more than just the Kernel | 09:22 |
| patersonc | Especially for CIP Core | 09:22 |
| patersonc | Now is a good time to define these requirements, as it may lead to a change in our plans/design | 09:23 |
| sangorrin | 2) where will we share the test definitions (yaml) files? we can reuse a lot from linaro validation I think. | 09:23 |
| patersonc | For example, can we build CIP Core in GitLab CI? Or do we need to use Jenkins etc.? | 09:23 |
| patersonc | We have a repo on CIP we can use for test definitions. | 09:24 |
| sangorrin | CIP Core: it depends which build tool the environment will be different | 09:24 |
| sangorrin | I want to propose to add "debos" as one of the CIP core image generators, and use it for CIP core base layer testing | 09:25 |
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| sangorrin | debos is already used in kernelci according to the slides i saw at ELCE | 09:25 |
| patersonc | sangorrin: Thanks. I'll take a look. Feel free to email the ML with info as well :) | 09:25 |
| szlin | back to kernel testing, any other points? | 09:26 |
| patersonc | 2) Would anyone like access to the LAVA master? | 09:26 |
| patersonc | It would be great if others could start trying to run some test cases so we can be sure it’s all working. | 09:26 |
| sangorrin | patersonc: yes | 09:26 |
| sangorrin | I used to have it, until my account was removed ;_; | 09:26 |
| patersonc | yes.... | 09:27 |
| szlin | sangorrin: how come ? | 09:27 |
| sangorrin | I want to add support for BBB | 09:27 |
| sangorrin | szlin: long story | 09:27 |
| patersonc | szlin: Users get lost on reboot. They need to be hardcoded in the docker/lava conf - don't ask... | 09:27 |
| patersonc | sangorrin: BBB - in your own lab or at Renesas? | 09:28 |
| sangorrin | in my own lab | 09:28 |
| szlin | patersonc: oops.. | 09:28 |
| szlin | sangorrin: TL;DR | 09:28 |
| patersonc | sangorrin: Okay. We'll try and publish a lab setup wiki in the next couple of weeks. | 09:28 |
| patersonc | One more topic: Should we use cip-dev for all testing related matters? Or should some things be in cip-members / a new ML? | 09:29 |
| sangorrin | patersonc: thanks, that will help me. | 09:29 |
| bwh | I think cip-dev is more appropriate | 09:30 |
| szlin | +1 | 09:30 |
| patersonc | Okay :). Thanks. | 09:30 |
| * patersonc puts down the mike | 09:30 | |
| patersonc | mic | 09:30 |
| sangorrin | About infrastructure: I want to make sure we can remove logs submitted by mistake (eg containing our public ips or a password) | 09:30 |
| patersonc | sangorrin: Details of test runs can be hidden. | 09:31 |
| patersonc | I don't know if they can be completely hidden yet though. I mean to check. | 09:31 |
| sangorrin | yes, just in case of a mistake or a miss | 09:31 |
| patersonc | and private testing :) | 09:32 |
| mungaip | sangorrin: yes, you can delete a log of a test | 09:33 |
| szlin | any other points? | 09:33 |
| szlin | 3 | 09:33 |
| szlin | 2 | 09:33 |
| szlin | 1 | 09:33 |
| szlin | #topic CIP Core | 09:33 |
| szlin | https://release.debian.org/buster/arch_qualify.html | 09:33 |
| sangorrin | OK, so as you know we will support two profiles: tiny and generic | 09:34 |
| szlin | As I mentioned before, armel won't be a candidate for Debian 10 | 09:34 |
| sangorrin | the packages are already available | 09:34 |
| bwh | szlin: No? | 09:34 |
| sangorrin | https://packages.debian.org/buster/armel/ | 09:35 |
| sangorrin | https://packages.debian.org/buster/armhf/ | 09:35 |
| sangorrin | szlin link: https://release.debian.org/buster/arch_qualify.html | 09:35 |
| sangorrin | armhf has a question mark | 09:35 |
| szlin | bwh: it marks no in architecture requalification status for buster | 09:35 |
| szlin | concerns-dsa : do not want to keep the hardware running past 2020 | 09:36 |
| bwh | Both armel and armhf have the problem that the build systems are dev boards that are hard to use remotely | 09:36 |
| bwh | The plan has been to switch them to arm64 hardware in 32-bit compatibility mode | 09:37 |
| sangorrin | bwh: one of the initial goals of CIP was to support the cross-compile effort | 09:37 |
| bwh | Yes, but Debian itself won't use that | 09:37 |
| sangorrin | will there be support for armhf through arm64 in 32-bit compatibility mode then? | 09:38 |
| bwh | Some arm64 processors support that, yes | 09:38 |
| sangorrin | szlin: maybe we need some clarifications, because armhf is fundamental for most members | 09:39 |
| szlin | #action Make sure armhf is available in Debian 10 | 09:40 |
| szlin | sangorrin: so both tiny and generic profiles depend on Debian ? | 09:41 |
| sangorrin | yes | 09:41 |
| sangorrin | if Debian does not support armhf, we will have to | 09:41 |
| sangorrin | at least in the tiny profile | 09:42 |
| szlin | iwamatsu: do you have any comments? | 09:42 |
| szlin | sangorrin: thanks, could you please share the profile link? | 09:42 |
| sangorrin | ok, so the tiny profile will be based on meta-debian v2 | 09:43 |
| sangorrin | meta-debian v2 is currently in development | 09:43 |
| sangorrin | https://github.com/meta-debian/meta-debian/tree/master-ng | 09:43 |
| szlin | sangorrin: thanks. | 09:43 |
| iwamatsu | I think that there is no problem with armhf. | 09:43 |
| sangorrin | I think it already builds | 09:43 |
| iwamatsu | armel is aware that there is a problem with support on debian 10 because hardware necessary for build is not found. | 09:44 |
| sangorrin | meta-debian v2 is still unstable but can be used | 09:44 |
| sangorrin | It would be nice to receive contributions: recipes for the base layer components | 09:44 |
| iwamatsu | yes, i am using and developing too. | 09:45 |
| sangorrin | or bug fixes | 09:45 |
| sangorrin | iwamatsu: thank you! | 09:45 |
| szlin | any other points? | 09:45 |
| sangorrin | new products using CIP are expected to use meta-debian v2 (unstable, will be stable in a few months) or meta-eid (still in prototype phase) | 09:45 |
| sangorrin | yes | 09:46 |
| sangorrin | so meta-debian v2 will try to be compatible with yocto recipes as much as possible | 09:46 |
| sangorrin | we want vendors to support meta-debian v2 with minimal effort | 09:46 |
| patersonc | sangorrin: Compatibility with yocto would be welcome. | 09:47 |
| sangorrin | yes | 09:47 |
| sangorrin | we need to define the base layer again | 09:47 |
| sangorrin | have it working on each reference board | 09:47 |
| sangorrin | and _test_ it | 09:47 |
| szlin | sangorrin: thanks. | 09:48 |
| szlin | any other points? | 09:48 |
| szlin | 3 | 09:48 |
| sangorrin | so if possible, people that intends to use the tiny profile please start now, and contribute | 09:48 |
| szlin | 2 | 09:48 |
| sangorrin | one more thing | 09:49 |
| sangorrin | i also want to add reference rootfs using debos | 09:49 |
| sangorrin | this tool uses debootstrap | 09:49 |
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| sangorrin | i want to know if someone is interested | 09:49 |
| szlin | https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/blog/2018/06/27/introducing-debos/ | 09:50 |
| sangorrin | basically, it will be pure debian | 09:50 |
| sangorrin | I will ask in the mailing list to the members if they plan to use cip core or not | 09:51 |
| szlin | sangorrin: ok, I will take a look on debos | 09:51 |
| sangorrin | and also which profile or image generator they are interested in | 09:52 |
| iwamatsu | https://wiki.debian.org/SystemBuildTools There are many similar tools. | 09:52 |
| sangorrin | yes, i have investigated most of them | 09:52 |
| sangorrin | there are more | 09:52 |
| szlin | #action Daniel will send email to cip-dev for cip-core | 09:54 |
| szlin | 1 | 09:54 |
| szlin | #topic Software update | 09:54 |
| sangorrin | ok, so this topic is related to cip core | 09:54 |
| sangorrin | because the goal is to enable software updates for CIP core reference boards | 09:54 |
| sangorrin | I am going to ask members several questions | 09:55 |
| sangorrin | 1) Do you agree with the goal of the CIP sw updates work group? | 09:55 |
| sangorrin | 2) What profiles of CIP are you interested to have updates (tiny, generic)? | 09:55 |
| sangorrin | 3) Are you using sw update tools in production? which? (custom, swupdate, ostree, mender..) | 09:55 |
| sangorrin | 4) If a custom one, would you open source it? | 09:55 |
| sangorrin | 5) What sw update tools would you like to see supported? | 09:55 |
| sangorrin | 6) Do you have any preferable update method? (sector diff, A/B, file binary diff, file based) | 09:55 |
| sangorrin | if you want to add some question, or have a comment on my questions let me know | 09:55 |
| szlin | sangorrin: I suggest to ask/ answer these questions via cip-members ML. | 09:57 |
| sangorrin | yes, i will do that | 09:58 |
| szlin | Some questions need to have internal consensus | 09:58 |
| sangorrin | 7) what do you want to update (bootloader, kernel, rootfs, app..) | 09:58 |
| sangorrin | i will ask in the cip-members list, here i want to agree on the questions to ask | 09:58 |
| szlin | Any objections? | 09:59 |
| patersonc | Seem like sensible questions to me | 09:59 |
| szlin | #action Daniel will send above questions via cip-members. | 10:00 |
| sangorrin | thanks | 10:00 |
| szlin | sangorrin: thanks! | 10:00 |
| szlin | sangorrin: did you know deltadeb? | 10:01 |
| szlin | https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Dpkg/Spec/DeltaDebs | 10:01 |
| sangorrin | no, thanks! | 10:01 |
| sangorrin | i will check it out | 10:02 |
| szlin | and also debdelta | 10:02 |
| szlin | http://debdelta.debian.net/ | 10:02 |
| sangorrin | nice thanks | 10:02 |
| sangorrin | btw, debos already supports ostree | 10:02 |
| sangorrin | for the first prototype i want to do as little effort as possible haha | 10:03 |
| szlin | sangorrin: AFAIK, Endless OS is using ostree + flatpak | 10:03 |
| sangorrin | thanks, ill check that. I didn't even know about such os | 10:04 |
| szlin | note: Endless OS is a Debian derivative distribution | 10:04 |
| szlin | any other points? | 10:05 |
| sangorrin | btw, the reproducibility project is important for reducing deltas | 10:05 |
| sangorrin | szlin: not from my side | 10:05 |
| szlin | #topic AOB | 10:06 |
| szlin | any other business? | 10:06 |
| szlin | 3 | 10:06 |
| szlin | 2 | 10:06 |
| patersonc | o/ | 10:06 |
| patersonc | Should we be creating working group pages on the wiki? | 10:06 |
| sangorrin | Agustin proposed to send a report before the TSC meetings | 10:07 |
| sangorrin | we could save those reports in the wiki | 10:07 |
| szlin | yap, he sent the email yesterday | 10:07 |
| patersonc | Okay. I think we need to make sure it looks like the project is active, so as many public updates as possible. | 10:07 |
| szlin | 3 | 10:09 |
| szlin | 2 | 10:09 |
| szlin | 1 | 10:09 |
| szlin | #endmeeting | 10:09 |
| sangorrin | thanks szlin! | 10:09 |
| * szlin thanks all for longest meeting we've ever have | 10:09 | |
| patersonc | Thanks all. | 10:09 |
| rajm | thanks szlin ! | 10:10 |
| szlin | s/have/had :p | 10:10 |
| patersonc | More agenda now... | 10:10 |
| szlin | so we can discuss some topics in normal time | 10:11 |
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| ironfoot | rajm: that's fixed. The only thing failing was the html generation | 11:22 |
| rajm | thanks ironfoot | 11:23 |
| ironfoot | thanks for letting me know, none of the other projects being logged noticed :) | 11:23 |
| szlin | ironfoot: thanks! | 11:23 |
| rajm | I shall have to tag someone else once we get past 30th Nov ;-) | 11:23 |
| patersonc | :) | 11:28 |
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| * toscalix read the IRC meeting logs :-) | 11:43 | |
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