IRC logs for #buildstream for Friday, 2020-04-24

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tristanLooks like interactive tests which use pexpect are fairly consistently acting all wonky06:58
tristanhttps://gitlab.com/BuildStream/buildstream/-/jobs/523965539, https://gitlab.com/BuildStream/buildstream/-/jobs/523965536...06:58
* tristan rebases and hopes last nights patches fixed this06:58
juergbitristan: we haven't increased the pexpect timeouts yet but should be trivial07:03
juergbiit's often the case that almost all the interactive tests fail or none, I guess depending on the runner VM load07:04
juergbilet me push this07:04
gitlab-br-botjuergbi opened MR !1884 (juerg/test-timeouts->master: Increase test timeouts) on buildstream https://gitlab.com/BuildStream/buildstream/-/merge_requests/188407:12
juergbitristan: ^^07:12
tristanAh I see07:16
tristanjuergbi, are those milliseconds ?07:18
tristan900 seconds timeout would seem like there is another underlying problem :-/07:18
gitlab-br-bottristanvb approved MR !1884 (juerg/test-timeouts->master: Increase test timeouts) on buildstream https://gitlab.com/BuildStream/buildstream/-/merge_requests/188407:18
juergbiseconds but the 900 second limit is hit very rarely. the interactive tests mostly fail due to the 60 (in MR 300) second limit, or maybe the shorter 5 (in MR 30) second limit07:19
juergbithe 900 (or 1800 in MR) second limit is just to avoid having CI jobs hang indefinitely if there is an infinite loop or similar07:20
juergbi(well, until the CI job is killed but then you don't get the error details)07:20
tristanjuergbi, yeah I don't have a problem with high value timeouts for CI, just I think that something is wrong with the CI if it legitimately takes that long :-S07:22
juergbiit would definitely be better if we could ensure fairer resource handling/scheduling to get less variance07:23
juergbihowever, we'd need someone to really look into that. also not sure whether we keep the current runner infrastructure with the move to Apache07:24
tristanyeah, I hope whatever happens we stay with gitlab (wherever the instance is)07:25
* juergbi too07:26
tristananyway yeah I guess it's plausible if we're throwing a lot of CI at the machines at the same time, that it can take 900 seconds (!) to respond to a simple prompt07:26
juergbi900 was for a whole test, not for a single prompt07:26
tristanmaybe some of the interactive tests simulate a failed build which takes a long time, but some of this is `bst init`07:26
juergbisingle prompt was 60 seconds, in the MR now 30007:26
tristanAh07:27
juergbifor short actions such as bst init the timeout was 5 seconds, in the MR now 3007:27
tristanis it that necessary to have such fine grained control ?07:27
juergbiif there is an I/O bottleneck, things can suddenly take a _lot_ longer on Linux07:27
tristanyeah, my text editor sometimes chokes on my obsessive compulsive saving while building a distro in the background07:28
juergbiwell, you want to detect hangs at some point07:28
WSalmoni got lost in scroll back did tristan and cs-shadow come to a consensus on how to mange dependencies for bst-pluigns-* ?07:28
tristanWSalmon, in general cs-shadow seems to favor smaller, case specific images, and recommends installing things "on the fly", I'm not so comfortable with the second part, and for the first part I think the question is just about maintenance burden07:30
tristanif it's not a burden to have many small images then I don't really care... I wouldn't say consensus is reached but as he has been mostly maintaining that stuff, I would defer to him07:31
tristanI guess nothing prevents third party plugins from deriving our images and adding some tooling deterministically for the purposes of their CI07:32
tristanI don't think it makes sense for us to be maintaining things which fall out of scope of the plugins we do maintain07:32
tristan(just seems like a fair place to draw a line)07:33
WSalmonim asking cos i want to add git lfs to git_tag in bst-plugins-experimental and i need to add git-lfs07:33
WSalmonok, all wait for cs-shaddow to be up and then ask him07:35
tristanI think this is a bit intertwined with the question of whether git_tag is an upstream plugin, which makes it a bit more sticky07:38
tristanexperimental has been a dumping ground for plugins migrating out of buildstream and a fuzzy area for people to add stuff to possibly graduate at a later time07:39
tristangit_tag afaiu is an fdsdk thing07:39
WSalmonand gnome and crash07:44
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gitlab-br-botBenjaminSchubert approved MR !1884 (juerg/test-timeouts->master: Increase test timeouts) on buildstream https://gitlab.com/BuildStream/buildstream/-/merge_requests/188407:51
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* tristan was just looking at BST_PLUGIN_DEPRECATED and wondering what role it might have in the future08:23
tristanI guess it's still relevant in a bst-2 world, but then I ran across this08:23
tristan"This deprecation warning may08:24
tristan    be suppressed on a plugin by plugin basis by setting08:24
tristan    ``suppress-deprecation-warnings: true`` in the relevent section of08:24
tristan    the project's :ref:`plugin configuration overrides <project_overrides>`"08:24
tristanThis appears weird, do we really have a sneaky special case in element declaration overrides which recognizes some special extra key ?08:24
tristanOr is this valid element/source declaration YAML too ?08:25
tristaneek, we do :-S08:27
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tristanplugin.py reaches directly into the overrides for this, is there a reason we don't want to have it consistently as element/source declaration yaml ? (causing it to effectively be overridable in exactly the same way)08:29
gitlab-br-botmarge-bot123 merged MR !1884 (juerg/test-timeouts->master: Increase test timeouts) on buildstream https://gitlab.com/BuildStream/buildstream/-/merge_requests/188408:35
gitlab-br-bottristanvb opened issue #1291 (Suppressing deprecation warnings abuses element/source overrides) on buildstream https://gitlab.com/BuildStream/buildstream/-/issues/129108:45
valentindjuergbi, OCI image on podman works. I did not get yet the docker image to work on docker. I have to find out why.09:01
juergbivalentind: thanks for testing, I think I see a bug in a docker-specific part09:05
juergbilet me quickly push a fix09:05
juergbiah no, I misread the diff, nm09:05
valentindI think it was a bug on my distribution. I purged. A now I am upgrading my installation.09:06
valentindIf that does not work, I will compare with the image produced by bst 1.4.09:06
juergbiok09:07
valentindBut I do not think the error was about the image. It loaded it correctly. It just cannot start the container.09:07
juergbigood news for me :)09:08
tristanjuergbi, any thoughts on min-version so far ? I'm moving on to the plugin versioning stuff discussed with cs-shadow the other day09:09
* tristan thinks it's time to prepare some groundwork in plugin origins too09:09
juergbitristan: overall I think it looks fine to me. I added one comment09:10
tristanthere is a lot of data structure wrangling in there, I think I'd like to have LocalPluginOrigin and PipPluginOrigin09:11
tristanand then later introduce JunctionPluginOrigin09:11
tristanAh thanks for the comment, I've been polling it ;-)09:12
benschuberttristan: around the 'junction' plugin origin, I hope to be able to send an email to the list today, still need some polishing before that though :)09:13
tristanbenschubert, I'm not that close to jumping into that yet, so there is time :)09:16
tristanbenschubert, does classing the origins and doing some delegation around the origins sound sensible to you ?09:16
benschubertnot sure what you want to delegate ? But it seems generally sensible yes09:17
tristanbenschubert, that might depend, but at least the parsing of the origin blocks and having proper objects there09:17
benschubertthat sounds good to me09:18
tristanjuergbi, def _adjust_version_for_release(major: int, minor: int) -> Tuple[int, int]: ?09:18
tristanI guess it's a bit wordy but explanatory enough09:18
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juergbitristan: I'd probably make it a wrapper around get_bst_version09:19
juergbiso no input required09:19
juergbisomething like _get_api_version()09:19
juergbi_get_bst_format_version()09:20
tristanUmmm09:21
tristanLemme see if that works everywhere09:21
tristanyeah that works everywhere09:23
tristan_get_bst_api_version() I think09:24
juergbisounds fine to me09:24
tristanformat_version is a thing of the past, and the release version pretty much works for both python and YAML APIs09:24
tristanThere is another thing I will want but I'm not in a hurry09:25
tristanFor instance, I would like to allow loading projects which say "min-version: 2.2", when utils.get_bst_version() reports (2, 1)09:25
tristani.e. allow using the bleeding edge dev releases but specifying the next stable version09:26
juergbiyes, so it's good to have it in a separate function09:28
juergbirelated to that, we may want to clarify whether we keep the odd=unstable convention for 2.x09:29
juergbiI think there has been some discussion about it a while ago09:29
tristanWhat is suggested as a replacement strategy for being able to make unstable development releases ?09:32
tristanAnyway, I don't really care as long as we have something that works09:33
juergbitristan: I don't know whether there have been any concrete proposals. it could be .90+ as micro version. or -preX or -rcX suffices09:33
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juergbiI'm also not saying we have to change, but it may make sense to revisit, also given the context of no longer being a GNOME project (where the current versioning is very common)09:34
tristanSure, I'm certain that we will have people who want to use something in advance of release, and will want tags/releases for it09:34
tristanChanging it is tedious and requires updating both documentation and mechanics (e.g. how the badges work etc)09:35
juergbiI generally like the even/odd versioning, however, the issue is that it's not always obvious which projects follow it09:35
juergbiwithin the GNOME umbrella it's usually clear09:35
tristanSo I would *prefer* not to change it, because it works well09:35
tristanit would seem silly to churn that stuff all over a matter of taste, but if people want to do the work...09:35
tristanI wouldnt complain ;-)09:36
juergbiyes, I personally don't have an issue with the current approach09:36
juergbidon't know whether Apache has a versioning policy09:36
tristanIf I had to decide between .90+ ranges in micro points, and -preX, I would go for -preX09:37
tristanbecause that automatically addresses the feature I want: Ability to treat a development release as if it were the next minor point release09:37
valentindjuergbi, It works.09:38
valentindThank you.09:38
tristanif you install BuildStream 2.1.0-pre0 (first unstable dev release leading up towards 2.1.x), then you decided to opt-in, but your min-version can immediately be "2.1", so you need not churn once 2.1.0 proper is released.09:38
juergbivalentind: great, thanks for testing09:38
* tristan hands min-version to marge after _get_bst_api_version()09:41
juergbiapache httpd also follows the odd/even approach09:41
benschuberttristan: one thing is around python versioning, the usual scheme is "-devX", then "-aX", then "-bX" and then final release, which is embedded in pip (pip install --pre will get hte latest dev version). Not saying we should change for this but that's also a point to consider09:43
valentindI have noticed when switching to bst master, it complains about the version in .bst/workspaces.yml. But maybe it should recognize old empty version and upgrade them automatically.09:52
tristanvalentind, I think we need to rename .bst/ -> .bst2/ ... rationale: https://gitlab.com/BuildStream/buildstream/-/issues/1266#note_32880714709:53
* tristan runs out for dinner09:53
benschuberttristan: a clean checkout would also do the trick there no? Not sure what would be gained in adding that, except having people have to update their gitignores? Since workspace from bst1 and bst2 are not compatible anyways09:55
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WSalmonbenschubert, ` bst1 and bst2 are not compatible anyways` is the issue tristan is trying to deal with09:58
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WSalmonthere was a lot of chatter on the issue to see how tristan came to this conclusion09:58
benschubertWSalmon: I know, and I read the issue, and my take is that people migrating will just clone the repo somewhere else, as it's probably simpler than having to switch back and forth :)09:59
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WSalmonbenschubert, im not sure that is the most user friendly approch10:31
WSalmonjuergbi, do we have something that says what you can and can not imclude? https://paste.gnome.org/pqwdhurwm10:33
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juergbiWSalmon: that paste doesn't exist10:37
WSalmonah10:37
WSalmoni may have acidently done a 1hr one and then got distracted10:38
WSalmon2 secs10:38
WSalmonjuergbi, https://paste.gnome.org/po0aduv5e10:39
WSalmondose that work?10:39
WSalmonthe problem is that for the image the kind could be bsp spesific10:40
abderrahim[m]WSalmon: there are restrictions on files loaded from junctions10:41
abderrahim[m](like the file should be valid before the junction is loaded)10:41
abderrahim[m]and it could be that you did something wrong, and it failed to produce an informative error message10:42
WSalmonjuergbi, for our overlay examples we have diffrent plugins for different bsp's Im not sure how to do this with the includes?10:43
WSalmonabderrahim[m], indeed10:46
juergbiWSalmon: there is some early processing required for junction elements. which means that the loader has to know early on whether an element is a junction or not and thus, the `kind` needs to be known10:47
juergbibefore include processing10:47
juergbihowever, it may be possible to improve that10:47
juergbie.g., maybe we could still allow 'kind' to be defined in includes for non-junction elements10:47
juergbii.e., if kind is not defined, assume it's not junction10:47
juergbi(and if it turns out later it is one, error out)10:48
abderrahim[m]I think it's worth finding out exactly what's happening in this exact instance10:48
juergbiprobably right before the junction check in _load_file_no_deps()10:49
juergbivalentind implemented the include handling, so he might have an opinion on my suggestion above10:50
WSalmonill try and get this slightly tidier and push it and then juergbi and abderrahim[m] etc can poke them selves10:50
juergbi(I haven't thought about it in detail)10:50
juergbiWSalmon: btw: benschubert is planning to send a mail today to the list about loading plugins from junctions10:51
juergbithat could provide an alternative for your use case as well10:52
juergbisomething like: kind: bsp.bst:image10:52
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valentindSo what if you have a dependency that goes through an element like a junction, but this element is not a junction. It should be the same error as if the element includes a junction.11:12
valentindI think if you have a test for that case, then it is fine.11:13
valentindSo, have "foo.bst" depends on "bar.bst:baz.bst". Have "bar.bst" include "bar.yml". And "bar.yml" has kind "junction". You should get an error message that "bar.bst" is not a junction.11:15
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WSalmonvalentind, is it posible to do things like https://paste.gnome.org/p4vgsfyt011:36
WSalmonthis seems to not want to work11:36
WSalmonoh hang on11:37
WSalmon i see it11:37
valentindNot in a list.11:37
valentindWe do not support that.11:37
valentindYou can however use (>)11:37
valentindIn combination.11:37
valentindSo make image-deps.yml have depends: ["your", "list"]11:38
valentindThen (@): image-deps.yml11:38
valentindAnd then depends: (>): ["other-element.bst"]11:38
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WSalmonvalentind,11:39
WSalmon[ {filename: bsp/raspi/boot.bst,11:40
WSalmon  type: build}11:40
WSalmon{ junction: freedesktop-sdk.bst,11:40
WSalmon  filename: components/e2fsprogs.bst,11:40
WSalmon  type: build}11:40
WSalmon]11:40
WSalmonlike that?11:40
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valentindWSalmon, I am not sure what you meant.11:51
valentindWSalmon, https://paste.gnome.org/pbdcs3djs11:52
WSalmonohhh11:53
valentindSo we fixed our issue of UNAVAILABLE grpc error in freedesktop SDK. But now we have another issue.11:53
WSalmonthat was not at all what i though tyou ment11:53
WSalmonok11:53
WSalmonill have a go11:53
valentindPulls hang for ever. Or at least for longer than 24 hours.11:53
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benschubertvalentind: can you run with --debug and give the ~/.cache/buildstream/logs/_casd/* ? That should give us debug info from casd14:04
benschubert(Probably no need to run for 24 hours :) )14:04
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valentindbenschubert, I think it might be the network being very slow.14:10
valentindI fixed something. And I will see if that helps. We have local cache server on the builders to fix the issue of slow network. That has worked. But I did not see recently that the disk space ran out, so the local cache pruned itself to leave room.14:11
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benschubertok!14:41
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WSalmonvalentind, do you know why https://paste.gnome.org/piph1pcak the final line of this causes https://paste.gnome.org/ps3ud9t0h14:46
WSalmonwhich out the type: build then there is a issue cos the plugin dosnet like runtime deps, but buildstream is happy with the yaml14:46
WSalmonwith out the `type: build` then there is a issue cos the plugin dosnet like runtime deps, but buildstream is happy with the yaml14:47
traveltissuesbenschubert: btw the deb source uses an import from tar14:50
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traveltissueswhich was an issue i discovered when i tried to remove tar14:51
benschuberttraveltissues: I know, that's also doing it in a way that we "technically do not support"14:51
benschubertI'd suggest rewriting the deb plugin14:51
traveltissuesi agree14:51
benschubertit's saving too much locally and is not efficient14:51
benschubertand the mail around plugin elements has finally been sent14:52
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traveltissuesif anyone has some time i'd appreciate reviews on: https://gitlab.com/BuildStream/bst-plugins-experimental/-/merge_requests/9115:12
valentindWSalmon, what is the content of bsp.bst:elements/deploy/image-deps.yml?15:15
valentindDoes it contain "depends:"? If not, it should.15:15
valentindIt should not be a list.15:15
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tristanbenschubert, then I will have the 20.08 branch where I have to work with bst-1 for hotfixes/security patches, and the master branch with bst-215:21
tristanI think people will naturally want to work with the same checkout in general (but maybe only renaming the workspace file would achieve the same without updating any .gitignore files)15:22
benschuberttristan: I see, but in that case, correct me if I am wrong (I don't have this use case): would you be having workspaces opened on both? in the same project while changing branches?15:22
tristanThere may be a good chance that I would, i.e. if I'm working on both, and workspaces is a feature, I very well might15:23
tristanRealistically, I might expect to use a workspace on a software module more in master15:23
tristanBut in stable, I may very well use a workspace on the fdsdk junction from gnome-build-meta15:23
* tristan actually mostly uses workspaces for junctions15:24
benschuberthowever you would be closing and reopening your workspaces no? How would you keep them in sync if you were working in bst-1 only (taking a step back for a moment)15:24
WSalmonvalentind, for now it lives https://gitlab.com/celduin/crash/bsp-playground/pi-3b-plus-bsp/-/blob/master/elements/deploy/image-deps.yml but will be moving15:24
tristanbenschubert, thats a good point, if I were working with bst-1 only then I would indeed do that15:25
WSalmonvalentind, https://gitlab.com/celduin/crash/bsp-playground/example-app/-/blob/master/elements/deploy/image.bst this worked15:25
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valentindWSalmon, Well that should have worked.15:25
WSalmonbut dosent sort it out15:25
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WSalmoni couldnt work it out, dose that look like a bug?15:26
benschuberttristan: then if we had support to "reset" the workspace when moving from 1 to 2 (back we would not need to care). Or if we allowd the closing of the workspace without erroring, we would have the same kind of behavior right?15:26
valentindWSalmon, I think this is just a parse error before even treating (@) and (>)15:26
valentindBut I do not see the issue here.15:26
benschubertI think the question is, "are they cases when you would change bst version while wanting to keep a workspace open"15:26
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tristanbenschubert, I don't think we can have the "close a workspace without erroring" behavior easily15:27
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benschubertif there is none, we can just force the closing15:27
valentindWSalmon, Oh I see.15:27
valentindLook!15:27
valentind  - deploy/filesystem.bst15:27
valentind    type: build15:27
tristanFor instance, closing a workspace means that BuildStream still needs to rewrite the workspaces.yml, so that all the other workspaces are preserved, in the format which BuildStream <version> understands15:28
valentindIt should have "filename: "15:28
benschubert> all the other workspaces are preserved15:29
benschubertYou would remove them too no? If would be an "all or nothing"15:29
benschubertWhich means we could basically just remove the file?15:29
benschubertOr am I missing something?15:29
tristanbenschubert, on the other hand, leaving the old file behind untouched (namespaced) is a nice way to say "Lets ignore this not very big issue, and if people keep their workspaces when they switch back and forth, good for them"15:29
WSalmonthanks valentind i have fallen for that a few times today15:29
benschubertwhich might lead to UX problems where "why is my workspace not used?" :)15:29
tristanWell, then you still have the command `bst workspace close` which now has a special case to recognize an old workspace file, and inform the user that you must use the --all option and close all workspaces ?15:30
tristanit seems like much ado about nothing to keep around in the codebase15:30
benschubertfair15:30
tristanover time, stale workspaces from bst-1 will just disappear15:30
benschubertand we could remove this in let's say 2.2/2.4? and error out brutally at that moment15:31
benschubertI agree with the "not having too much code to maintain"15:31
tristanif we just renamed it, we could just do nothing at all pretty much15:31
tristanif we removed it in 2.2/2.4, we still risk annoying any user we don't know about who might have a bst-1 project lying around15:32
tristani.e. where "it" is a bunch of special case error messages15:32
benschubertI believe we'd still need to have some error message15:32
tristanWhich ?15:32
benschubertbecause a user moving from 1 to 2 might not understand why his workspace is not used anymore15:32
tristanWe could have a sentence in the porting guide which needs to be written15:33
benschubertThat would be fine for the people that actively work on the switch for the project, but less involved users?15:33
benschubertif you think that's fine, then fine let's go with .bst/workspaces2.yml and nuke code :)15:33
tristan"Old workspaces will not be cleaned up", or we could have a warning message in permanence at startup "Detected old bst-1 workspaces which will be ignored"15:33
benschubert> if we removed it in 2.2/2.4, we still risk annoying any user we don't know about who might have a bst-1 project lying around15:34
benschubert4:32 PM i.e. where "it" is a bunch of special case error messages15:34
benschubertSimilar to that then? :)15:34
benschubertBut again I am not working with bst 1 so I don't know everything and how this is handled so if you believe It's the easiest, let's go for that15:35
tristanHeh, I would be fine to just not have it honestly, but I think there is more special casing that is needed otherwise15:35
benschuberthowever let's not make it .bst2 :)15:35
tristana single if [ -f .bst/workspaces.yml ]; then echo "Warn about it: Use bst-1 to clean it up if you want"; fi15:35
tristanyeah I agree .bst2/ is a bit more pervasive15:36
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gitlab-br-bottristanvb merged MR !1881 (tristan/min-version->master: Replace format-version with min-version) on buildstream https://gitlab.com/BuildStream/buildstream/-/merge_requests/188116:31
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