IRC logs for #automotive for Wednesday, 2015-12-16

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ash_mwill it cause problems to jack up a car on it's side to replace a transmission mount?03:46
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Tarnykomorning09:22
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paulsherwoodhttp://git.projects.genivi.org/?p=meta-genivi-demo.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/jonathanmaw/system-mode09:40
paulsherwoodhttps://at.projects.genivi.org/jira/browse/GDP-109:41
pedroalvarezthanks paulsherwood09:41
* paulsherwood is pasting public content which is being discussed in a non-public meeting09:41
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paulsherwoodhi philrob09:45
paulsherwoodthis channel is logged also09:46
paulsherwoodhttps://irclogs.baserock.org/automotive/09:46
pedroalvarezindeed :)09:46
toscalixpaulsherwood: thanks for being fast with the channel change.....and tell me right away09:47
* paulsherwood struggles to hear folks that are far from the microphone in conf calls.... this is one of my (many) pet hates :)09:47
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toscalixI have the volume really high :-)09:48
toscalixwith headphones09:48
rjekConference calls often need subtitles.09:51
rjekIf you had subtitles, everybody would be easily heard.  Then you could get rid of the annoying audio all together.09:51
rjekWe could call it IRC ;-)09:51
paulsherwoodi've tried that on other meetings.... it's better in some respects, but some folks contribute better on audio calls09:52
gunnarxHello mresidori.  Welcome!  Everyone say welcome to mresidori.09:52
paulsherwoodwelcome mresidori !09:53
jbocklageciao marco!09:53
mresidoriwelcome everybody!09:53
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Chris___Hi Marco09:54
toscalixmresidori: welcome09:54
rjekmresidori: welcome09:54
paulsherwoodwe're back past 50 people here.... i wonder if we'll be over 100 by next year? :)09:55
rjekWhen I were a lad there were like 4 people.09:55
paulsherwoodyup09:55
pedroalvarezhey mresidori :)09:56
* rjek prepares the Chateau de Chassilier.09:57
toscalixmresidori: CTpollard and jonathanmaw (currently on vacation) are the GDP maintainers. pedroalvarez is our devops09:58
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* pedroalvarez is hurt09:59
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* rjek shudders at "devops"10:01
rjekIt looks to me very much like sysadmin, except everything's written in Ruby instead of Perl. :)10:01
CTtpollardhey mresidori10:01
toscalixpedroalvarez: sorry for the label10:03
pedroalvarezhah no worries toscalix, I was just kidding :)10:04
toscalix:-) but it is a simple way to express what you are doing10:04
pedroalvarezI'm many things10:04
toscalixyep10:04
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mresidoriThank you everybody for the warm welcome. I´m new to IRC. I`m going to follow the discussions of this channel in the future.10:06
pedroalvarezmresidori:  note that the channel is being logged https://irclogs.baserock.org/automotive/10:08
pedroalvarezthat should help people that is not always connected to irc :)10:09
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toscalixwe have 30 min for the team meeting. we will talk about the next steps in the cont. delivery efforts and the jira workflow. Please put some thinking on that10:25
toscalixbefore the meeting10:25
toscalixadd to the agenda any other point, pleasepoint10:25
toscalix:-)10:26
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paulsherwoodtoscalix: are you saying gdp meetings will happen here?10:26
toscalixI was thinking about having it here today, yes10:27
toscalixsince it is a discussion that will affect how we interact with others10:28
toscalixand it is just about discussing it10:28
paulsherwood+110:29
toscalixwe will start at 12:0010:32
paulsherwoodwhich timezone? :)10:32
toscalix12:00 CET / 11:00 UTC...sorry10:32
toscalixin 30 min.10:32
toscalixnext time we will try a public hangout10:33
toscalixready?11:01
CTtpollardo/11:01
toscalixpedroalvarez: ?11:01
pedroalvarezo/11:02
toscalix== GDP Maintenance Team weekly meeting ===11:02
toscalixBy default this is a private meeting but today we make it public so you can follow it and participate if you want to. The topics will impact those interested in GDP (GENIVI Demo Platform).11:02
toscalixTwo topics:11:02
toscalix1.- GDP maintenance JIRA workflow.: discussion11:02
toscalix2.- GDP maintenance continuous delivery (CD) pipeline: discussion11:02
toscalix3.- AOB11:02
toscalixAny other point?11:02
paulsherwood- can it be public by default? :)11:02
paulsherwoodsorry... i'll go and troll somewhere else :-)11:03
toscalixwe will have more like this one, everytime we have topics that affect those who contribute to gdp11:03
paulsherwoodack11:03
toscalix1.-11:04
toscalixPlease check the folliwing link for the discussion: https://at.projects.genivi.org/jira/secure/RapidBoard.jspa?rapidView=2&projectKey=GDP&view=detail&selectedIssue=GDP-1411:04
toscalixIt is the kanban board we will use. If it is not already, it will be public soon. Right now is open to those who have a user in the "new" GENIVI public infrastructure (JIRA/Confluence.)11:04
pedroalvarezyeah, it doesn't look public11:04
toscalixIt should be soon. The intention was to make it public from day one, but sysadmins told me it will as soon as they can11:05
toscalixso it is just a matter of days11:05
CTtpollardgreat11:05
pedroalvareznice11:05
toscalixthe kanban implies a workflow11:06
toscalixwith 4 states11:06
toscalixtodo, in progress review and done11:06
toscalixbut the way we work is that we get proposals or requests, we evaluate them and, when we approve them, we put them in the backlog, the we work on them11:07
toscalixand finally we finish them and report about them11:07
toscalixsometimes we determine when a task is done and sometimes is somebody else at genivi who does11:07
* pedroalvarez nods11:08
toscalixinstead of starting with a complex workflow in JIRA that reflects this11:08
toscalixI propose to start with the default workflow jira proposes11:08
toscalixand grow up from there11:08
toscalixthe main question to me is the review state11:08
toscalixwe have two options11:09
toscalixreflect through that state those requests that are being considered and then added to our backlog11:09
toscalixor, those tasks that have been done and requires some approval to be done done11:10
toscalixthis second approach is the one reflected right now in the kanban11:10
pedroalvarezthose are 2 different tasks, "consider request" and "review implemented request"11:10
toscalixyes11:10
pedroalvarezmaybe the request, can go to review when being considered, and then go back to backlog once we have decided to implement it11:11
toscalixI believe that we will make more use of the state with the first approach, that is, using it to reflect those tasks that we are considering11:11
pedroalvarezusing the prefix "REQUEST:" when it hasn't been approved11:11
toscalixpedro... I would prefer to go simple and have a linear state. I thought about that and requires a change in the workflow11:11
pedroalvarezor using tags11:12
pedroalvarezfari11:12
pedroalvarezfair*11:12
toscalixtags is something we can use to module the state11:12
pedroalvarezis it possible to add an extra lane before ToDo?11:12
toscalixthe facto, in the current proposal (kanban) I will be the only used of the state. In the other case, the maintainers and other people involved will be the users11:13
toscalixpedroalvarez: we can add a column11:13
toscalixbut a column change not associated to a change of state will have no relfection on the task, just on the board11:14
toscalixso you have to go to the board to find out what's going on11:14
pedroalvarezI see11:14
CTtpollardI'd prefer to keep it in-line11:15
toscalixare you guys ok with using the review state to reflect those tasks that you are evaluating before putting them into the backlog?11:16
toscalixso we all use the review state?11:16
toscalixlater on we can add a fifth state for those task that are done and require a third party approval to consider them done done11:17
CTtpollardsomething in review could also go back into in progress or done as well11:17
pedroalvarezlooks odd to me, but ok. I take that there are no reviewing these days for GDP patches11:18
toscalixCTtpollard: I would like to propose that, those changes that are not linear are considered extraordinary so requires that somebody else review/approve them11:18
toscalixI will not enforce it in the tool though. I want to keep the workflow flexible since we are only 4/6 people using it11:19
CTtpollardpedroalvarez: beyond posting to the mailing list, no11:19
toscalixpedroalvarez: we will talk about that in point 211:19
toscalixso... we will change the proposal so the outcome of the review state is either it moves into our backlog or is closed (won't do)11:20
toscalixdo you agree?11:20
toscalix511:21
toscalix411:21
CTtpollardfine by me11:21
toscalix311:21
pedroalvarezmmmmkay :)11:21
toscalixwhen should we evaluate the decision?11:22
toscalixin 3 months?11:22
CTtpollardcould put that as a soft date, but we can change before that if needs be11:22
CTtpollardimo11:22
toscalixmaybe april better, right before the AMM ?11:22
toscalixCTtpollard: yes11:22
CTtpollardlike you say, we have to be flexible11:23
toscalixanother point about JIRA11:23
toscalixwe have defined 4 epics11:23
toscalix1 for general purposes, 1 for the devops work and 2 for specific mid term actions we are currently working on11:24
toscalixI would like to ensure here a common understanding of what is a tasks and what is not11:24
toscalixwhen there is something new, we need to ask ourself, is this a task to reflect in jira?11:25
toscalixto me there are two criteria, let me know if you have more11:25
CTtpollarda non task is an issue?11:26
toscalixa.- if it is longer than a "report cycle", that is, a week, it whould be a task/issue11:26
toscalixtask=issue11:26
toscalixin this conversation....11:26
toscalixI am not JIRized yet11:27
toscalixif this task is something that involves other contributors... it should be a task11:27
toscalixunless the effort is not significant11:27
toscalixlet's say.... a few hours? a day? two days?11:28
toscalixwhat do you think?11:28
pedroalvarezwe could start with that. If then we start to look like we do nothing, we could change it11:28
pedroalvarezI used to create tasks for things that were goint to take less than a day, that's why I don't know how this is going to work with one week11:29
toscalixCTtpollard: you do many small tasks that needs to be followed over time because they are ongoing. How do you see this topic?11:30
toscalixpedroalvarez: work on more intensive tasks11:30
toscalixis my vision true, pedroalvarez ?11:30
CTtpollardtoscalix: I'm not really sure right now11:31
toscalixCTtpollard: ^^11:31
toscalixok11:31
pedroalvareznot sure either11:31
toscalixso let's go for a general criteria then: something that takes longer than a week to be done should be tracked11:32
toscalixno matter how much effort involves11:32
pedroalvarezI'm ok with that for now :)11:32
CTtpollard+111:32
toscalixand any action that invlve contributors or other people that goes beyond a couple of days should be tracked11:32
toscalixs/invive/involve11:32
toscalixwe need also to track any activity that is suitable to be included in the weekly report11:33
toscalixwith those three general critia...we can start11:33
toscalixare you guys fine with that or you want to add something else/different?11:34
pedroalvarezI'm fine11:34
toscalixanything else about JIRA for now?11:35
pedroalvarez_o_11:35
CTtpollard_o_11:35
toscalixlet's move on then11:35
toscalix2.- GDP maintenance continuous delivery (CD) pipeline: discussion11:35
toscalixpedroalvarez: link to Go?11:36
pedroalvarezhttp://go.genivi.org/go/pipelines11:36
toscalixI forgot the user/pass for guests11:36
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pedroalvarezthis one should be public11:36
pedroalvarezUSERNAME: guest PASSWORD: genivigo11:36
toscalixI believe it will be public also, right?11:37
toscalixnow that we are using it in production11:37
pedroalvarezthat one is the guest user. It would be nice if it could be public, although I believe it's a limitation of the tool11:37
pedroalvarezwhen I say public, I mean public without using any guest login11:37
toscalixpedroalvarez: can you ask the admin about this?11:37
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pedroalvarezheheh, that's timing11:38
toscalixjejejeje11:38
pedroalvarezI'll ask him, yes11:38
toscalixok, thanks11:38
toscalixwe are building gdp using qemu11:39
pedroalvarezyes, we have 2 pipelines in place:11:39
toscalixin order to have a "walking skeleton" of a CD pipeline11:39
toscalixthere is a lot to be done11:39
pedroalvarez- One that checks patches for meta-genivi-demo11:40
pedroalvarez- One tht checks patches for genivi-demo-platform11:40
toscalixYOCTO based, right?11:40
pedroalvarezat the moment they are checking for changes in the qemu-ci branch, but ideally a patch tracker should trigger the pipelines11:40
pedroalvarezyes, YOCTO11:40
toscalixto me is important to agree on the next step11:41
toscalixand then I would like to create a todo list11:41
toscalixas goal for this meeting11:41
toscalixnext step. My proposal is to create and automate very basic acceptance tests11:42
toscalixwe have talked about this before, but now that you guys are using the tool, do you still believe this should be the next step?11:42
pedroalvarezyes, provision the qemu images to somewhere, check that it boots, and run some tests11:43
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CTtpollardwhen I accept patches, I'd merge into the qemu-ci branch to the build is tested before merging to master. But yes deployment and testing will be good, especially for actual hardware11:44
toscalixa question to me is, as maintainers, I would not want users to be able to download images that has not been tested. On the other hand, I would like contributors to be able to download images that has not been tested so they do also11:44
toscalixCTtpollard: I think we are still a little far away from the "hardware part"11:45
CTtpollardtoscalix: definitely, my point was more, a patch may build for qemu-ci, but the patch under test could have specifics for say the renesas builds11:45
toscalixso pedroalvarez from your sentence.... the provision images to somewhere.... part is tricky11:46
pedroalvarezwell, it is, but we are clever11:46
toscalixI assume you have an idea of how to do it then11:46
pedroalvarezyes :)11:46
toscalixok11:47
toscalixso basic acceptance tests then11:47
toscalixnow, what else should we put in the todo list?11:48
toscalixbad timing for asking ...... imagine we are not in Christmas11:48
pedroalvarezcreate pipelines for other boards, so that we can check that builds don't crash11:49
toscalixwe have a request from the BIT team of adding Baserock pipelines11:49
toscalixtarget boards, not just qemu11:49
toscalixwhich boards?11:49
CTtpollardI manually build and test for Koelsch, Porter and Intel Minnowboard Max11:50
pedroalvarezporter, minnow, and the other beer-named one :)11:50
toscalixI see11:51
pedroalvarezjust checking that they build. Doing that should be easy11:51
toscalixwhat about gerrit?11:51
toscalixor any other tool with same goal?11:51
pedroalvarezwell, that's my dream11:52
toscalixcan we consider doing as verification tests, before the deployment (candidate declaration) like integrity checks?11:53
toscalixor that is way too hard for now?11:53
pedroalvarezI don't understand that11:53
pedroalvarezIf we were using gerrit, any patch will trigger the pipeline, and then, GoCD will report to the patch as a comment11:54
toscalixafter the acceptance tests, we will need to answer the question... do we declare this image as candidate? I assume there will be some manual tests involved11:54
toscalixthat little by little we will try to automate11:55
CTtpollardwhere acceptance test = the new patch builds?11:55
pedroalvarezyes, I also assume it will be difficult to test everything that needs to be tested11:55
toscalixCTtpollard: we need to define what we will consider as acceptance tests11:57
pedroalvarezbut not  only building11:57
toscalixto do that, we need to think about the use case and target11:57
CTtpollardI particularly want any patch to meta-genivi-demo to be build-able for any board, so all boards can track head11:57
CTtpollardthat would be part of the acceptance, imo11:58
toscalixexample.... when you think about a server, you consider that you will deploy the system in the machine itself so network should work in order to repair any potential problem11:58
toscalixfor embeeded, the assumption is that a developer uses a second machine11:59
toscalixeither to create the image or to transfer the system on boot time11:59
toscalixwhat are the acceptance tests to consider in that scenario?12:00
toscalixanyway, that is out of topic, sorry12:00
pedroalvareza very basic one was that the weston.service was running12:00
pedroalvareztrue12:00
toscalixother ideas to consider for CD?12:00
toscalixis there a test framework that people are using at GENIVI that we can incorporate?12:01
toscalixor set of tests?12:01
CTtpollardI'm not aware of one12:01
toscalix5 more min to go12:02
pedroalvarezhttps://at.projects.genivi.org/wiki/display/PROJ/Test+suite+for+GDP ?12:02
toscalixpedroalvarez: i asked jeremiah about it. Not for production.12:03
pedroalvarezright, but maybe an starting point for us12:03
toscalixany other idea we should consider at this point12:03
toscalix?12:03
toscalixok, we will evaluate it12:03
toscalixCTtpollard: anything you need on a day to day basis?12:04
toscalixthat is achivable in the coming months?12:05
toscalixor worth evaluating12:05
CTtpollardnothing stands out beyond what we're already aiming for and implementing12:05
toscalixAOB then12:05
toscalix_o_12:05
CTtpollardif genivi.go could provision the images it builds for manual deployment and testing that could save me time, but I'm not sure if licence complications come into that12:06
toscalixCTtpollard: it is getting sunny in that regard12:06
toscalixanything alse?12:07
CTtpollardI think I'm done :)12:07
pedroalvarezyeah me too12:07
toscalix== GDM maintenance Team weekly Meeting end ==12:08
CTtpollardthanks12:08
toscalixMerry Christmas guys12:08
pedroalvarezthanks toscalix :)12:09
pedroalvarezmerry christmas12:09
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CTtpollardMarko has actually just emailed the genivi-project list with useful information around accessing go.genivi artefacts12:14
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gunnarxCTtpollard, it's useful info but the plan is probably not to host downloads directly from go-server12:25
gunnarxI mean the information about how to handl artifacts is good, but we should not yet be telling people widely to go to download results using that method, is all I mean.12:26
gunnarxI responded on the mailing list also btw12:26
CTtpollardyeh sure, I was meaning for personal use case right now12:27
gunnarxyep12:29
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waltminerOk. Here is my question. Star Wars. 3D or 2D?15:46
CTtpollard2D15:48
leon-anaviI plan go to the 3D version :)15:49
CTtpollardno spoilers waltminer!15:49
waltminerI have not seen it yet15:49
waltminermost like 2D for me15:49
waltminerThere is a theater near me showing it 24 hours per day starting at 7 pm tomorrow. So you can go to a 4 am showing15:50
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jlrmagnusjeremiah, I am in the git strategy meeting.15:56
paulsherwoodgit strategy?15:56
* paulsherwood wishes he was there15:57
jlrmagnusJeremiah, Agustin, Philippe, and I will have a chat about genivi git strategy.15:57
jlrmagnusAnybody else who wants to join the hangout are free to do so.15:57
paulsherwoodlink?15:57
jlrmagnushttps://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/jaguarlandrover.com/git-strategy15:58
waltmineris it members only?15:58
paulsherwoodthanks... it's a bit of a pet topic... i've been banging on about git in genivi for three years or so :)15:58
jlrmagnusYou shall meet your match in Lilli15:58
waltminerI brought it up in 200915:58
jlrmagnuswaltminer, You can join.15:59
jlrmagnusNothing secret going on here.16:00
waltminerI will even interrupt my morning of listening to Yo La Tengo for this16:00
paulsherwood:)16:01
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