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ash_m | will it cause problems to jack up a car on it's side to replace a transmission mount? | 03:46 |
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Tarnyko | morning | 09:22 |
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paulsherwood | http://git.projects.genivi.org/?p=meta-genivi-demo.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/jonathanmaw/system-mode | 09:40 |
paulsherwood | https://at.projects.genivi.org/jira/browse/GDP-1 | 09:41 |
pedroalvarez | thanks paulsherwood | 09:41 |
* paulsherwood is pasting public content which is being discussed in a non-public meeting | 09:41 | |
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paulsherwood | hi philrob | 09:45 |
paulsherwood | this channel is logged also | 09:46 |
paulsherwood | https://irclogs.baserock.org/automotive/ | 09:46 |
pedroalvarez | indeed :) | 09:46 |
toscalix | paulsherwood: thanks for being fast with the channel change.....and tell me right away | 09:47 |
* paulsherwood struggles to hear folks that are far from the microphone in conf calls.... this is one of my (many) pet hates :) | 09:47 | |
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toscalix | I have the volume really high :-) | 09:48 |
toscalix | with headphones | 09:48 |
rjek | Conference calls often need subtitles. | 09:51 |
rjek | If you had subtitles, everybody would be easily heard. Then you could get rid of the annoying audio all together. | 09:51 |
rjek | We could call it IRC ;-) | 09:51 |
paulsherwood | i've tried that on other meetings.... it's better in some respects, but some folks contribute better on audio calls | 09:52 |
gunnarx | Hello mresidori. Welcome! Everyone say welcome to mresidori. | 09:52 |
paulsherwood | welcome mresidori ! | 09:53 |
jbocklage | ciao marco! | 09:53 |
mresidori | welcome everybody! | 09:53 |
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Chris___ | Hi Marco | 09:54 |
toscalix | mresidori: welcome | 09:54 |
rjek | mresidori: welcome | 09:54 |
paulsherwood | we're back past 50 people here.... i wonder if we'll be over 100 by next year? :) | 09:55 |
rjek | When I were a lad there were like 4 people. | 09:55 |
paulsherwood | yup | 09:55 |
pedroalvarez | hey mresidori :) | 09:56 |
* rjek prepares the Chateau de Chassilier. | 09:57 | |
toscalix | mresidori: CTpollard and jonathanmaw (currently on vacation) are the GDP maintainers. pedroalvarez is our devops | 09:58 |
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* pedroalvarez is hurt | 09:59 | |
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* rjek shudders at "devops" | 10:01 | |
rjek | It looks to me very much like sysadmin, except everything's written in Ruby instead of Perl. :) | 10:01 |
CTtpollard | hey mresidori | 10:01 |
toscalix | pedroalvarez: sorry for the label | 10:03 |
pedroalvarez | hah no worries toscalix, I was just kidding :) | 10:04 |
toscalix | :-) but it is a simple way to express what you are doing | 10:04 |
pedroalvarez | I'm many things | 10:04 |
toscalix | yep | 10:04 |
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mresidori | Thank you everybody for the warm welcome. I´m new to IRC. I`m going to follow the discussions of this channel in the future. | 10:06 |
pedroalvarez | mresidori: note that the channel is being logged https://irclogs.baserock.org/automotive/ | 10:08 |
pedroalvarez | that should help people that is not always connected to irc :) | 10:09 |
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toscalix | we have 30 min for the team meeting. we will talk about the next steps in the cont. delivery efforts and the jira workflow. Please put some thinking on that | 10:25 |
toscalix | before the meeting | 10:25 |
toscalix | add to the agenda any other point, pleasepoint | 10:25 |
toscalix | :-) | 10:26 |
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paulsherwood | toscalix: are you saying gdp meetings will happen here? | 10:26 |
toscalix | I was thinking about having it here today, yes | 10:27 |
toscalix | since it is a discussion that will affect how we interact with others | 10:28 |
toscalix | and it is just about discussing it | 10:28 |
paulsherwood | +1 | 10:29 |
toscalix | we will start at 12:00 | 10:32 |
paulsherwood | which timezone? :) | 10:32 |
toscalix | 12:00 CET / 11:00 UTC...sorry | 10:32 |
toscalix | in 30 min. | 10:32 |
toscalix | next time we will try a public hangout | 10:33 |
toscalix | ready? | 11:01 |
CTtpollard | o/ | 11:01 |
toscalix | pedroalvarez: ? | 11:01 |
pedroalvarez | o/ | 11:02 |
toscalix | == GDP Maintenance Team weekly meeting === | 11:02 |
toscalix | By default this is a private meeting but today we make it public so you can follow it and participate if you want to. The topics will impact those interested in GDP (GENIVI Demo Platform). | 11:02 |
toscalix | Two topics: | 11:02 |
toscalix | 1.- GDP maintenance JIRA workflow.: discussion | 11:02 |
toscalix | 2.- GDP maintenance continuous delivery (CD) pipeline: discussion | 11:02 |
toscalix | 3.- AOB | 11:02 |
toscalix | Any other point? | 11:02 |
paulsherwood | - can it be public by default? :) | 11:02 |
paulsherwood | sorry... i'll go and troll somewhere else :-) | 11:03 |
toscalix | we will have more like this one, everytime we have topics that affect those who contribute to gdp | 11:03 |
paulsherwood | ack | 11:03 |
toscalix | 1.- | 11:04 |
toscalix | Please check the folliwing link for the discussion: https://at.projects.genivi.org/jira/secure/RapidBoard.jspa?rapidView=2&projectKey=GDP&view=detail&selectedIssue=GDP-14 | 11:04 |
toscalix | It is the kanban board we will use. If it is not already, it will be public soon. Right now is open to those who have a user in the "new" GENIVI public infrastructure (JIRA/Confluence.) | 11:04 |
pedroalvarez | yeah, it doesn't look public | 11:04 |
toscalix | It should be soon. The intention was to make it public from day one, but sysadmins told me it will as soon as they can | 11:05 |
toscalix | so it is just a matter of days | 11:05 |
CTtpollard | great | 11:05 |
pedroalvarez | nice | 11:05 |
toscalix | the kanban implies a workflow | 11:06 |
toscalix | with 4 states | 11:06 |
toscalix | todo, in progress review and done | 11:06 |
toscalix | but the way we work is that we get proposals or requests, we evaluate them and, when we approve them, we put them in the backlog, the we work on them | 11:07 |
toscalix | and finally we finish them and report about them | 11:07 |
toscalix | sometimes we determine when a task is done and sometimes is somebody else at genivi who does | 11:07 |
* pedroalvarez nods | 11:08 | |
toscalix | instead of starting with a complex workflow in JIRA that reflects this | 11:08 |
toscalix | I propose to start with the default workflow jira proposes | 11:08 |
toscalix | and grow up from there | 11:08 |
toscalix | the main question to me is the review state | 11:08 |
toscalix | we have two options | 11:09 |
toscalix | reflect through that state those requests that are being considered and then added to our backlog | 11:09 |
toscalix | or, those tasks that have been done and requires some approval to be done done | 11:10 |
toscalix | this second approach is the one reflected right now in the kanban | 11:10 |
pedroalvarez | those are 2 different tasks, "consider request" and "review implemented request" | 11:10 |
toscalix | yes | 11:10 |
pedroalvarez | maybe the request, can go to review when being considered, and then go back to backlog once we have decided to implement it | 11:11 |
toscalix | I believe that we will make more use of the state with the first approach, that is, using it to reflect those tasks that we are considering | 11:11 |
pedroalvarez | using the prefix "REQUEST:" when it hasn't been approved | 11:11 |
toscalix | pedro... I would prefer to go simple and have a linear state. I thought about that and requires a change in the workflow | 11:11 |
pedroalvarez | or using tags | 11:12 |
pedroalvarez | fari | 11:12 |
pedroalvarez | fair* | 11:12 |
toscalix | tags is something we can use to module the state | 11:12 |
pedroalvarez | is it possible to add an extra lane before ToDo? | 11:12 |
toscalix | the facto, in the current proposal (kanban) I will be the only used of the state. In the other case, the maintainers and other people involved will be the users | 11:13 |
toscalix | pedroalvarez: we can add a column | 11:13 |
toscalix | but a column change not associated to a change of state will have no relfection on the task, just on the board | 11:14 |
toscalix | so you have to go to the board to find out what's going on | 11:14 |
pedroalvarez | I see | 11:14 |
CTtpollard | I'd prefer to keep it in-line | 11:15 |
toscalix | are you guys ok with using the review state to reflect those tasks that you are evaluating before putting them into the backlog? | 11:16 |
toscalix | so we all use the review state? | 11:16 |
toscalix | later on we can add a fifth state for those task that are done and require a third party approval to consider them done done | 11:17 |
CTtpollard | something in review could also go back into in progress or done as well | 11:17 |
pedroalvarez | looks odd to me, but ok. I take that there are no reviewing these days for GDP patches | 11:18 |
toscalix | CTtpollard: I would like to propose that, those changes that are not linear are considered extraordinary so requires that somebody else review/approve them | 11:18 |
toscalix | I will not enforce it in the tool though. I want to keep the workflow flexible since we are only 4/6 people using it | 11:19 |
CTtpollard | pedroalvarez: beyond posting to the mailing list, no | 11:19 |
toscalix | pedroalvarez: we will talk about that in point 2 | 11:19 |
toscalix | so... we will change the proposal so the outcome of the review state is either it moves into our backlog or is closed (won't do) | 11:20 |
toscalix | do you agree? | 11:20 |
toscalix | 5 | 11:21 |
toscalix | 4 | 11:21 |
CTtpollard | fine by me | 11:21 |
toscalix | 3 | 11:21 |
pedroalvarez | mmmmkay :) | 11:21 |
toscalix | when should we evaluate the decision? | 11:22 |
toscalix | in 3 months? | 11:22 |
CTtpollard | could put that as a soft date, but we can change before that if needs be | 11:22 |
CTtpollard | imo | 11:22 |
toscalix | maybe april better, right before the AMM ? | 11:22 |
toscalix | CTtpollard: yes | 11:22 |
CTtpollard | like you say, we have to be flexible | 11:23 |
toscalix | another point about JIRA | 11:23 |
toscalix | we have defined 4 epics | 11:23 |
toscalix | 1 for general purposes, 1 for the devops work and 2 for specific mid term actions we are currently working on | 11:24 |
toscalix | I would like to ensure here a common understanding of what is a tasks and what is not | 11:24 |
toscalix | when there is something new, we need to ask ourself, is this a task to reflect in jira? | 11:25 |
toscalix | to me there are two criteria, let me know if you have more | 11:25 |
CTtpollard | a non task is an issue? | 11:26 |
toscalix | a.- if it is longer than a "report cycle", that is, a week, it whould be a task/issue | 11:26 |
toscalix | task=issue | 11:26 |
toscalix | in this conversation.... | 11:26 |
toscalix | I am not JIRized yet | 11:27 |
toscalix | if this task is something that involves other contributors... it should be a task | 11:27 |
toscalix | unless the effort is not significant | 11:27 |
toscalix | let's say.... a few hours? a day? two days? | 11:28 |
toscalix | what do you think? | 11:28 |
pedroalvarez | we could start with that. If then we start to look like we do nothing, we could change it | 11:28 |
pedroalvarez | I used to create tasks for things that were goint to take less than a day, that's why I don't know how this is going to work with one week | 11:29 |
toscalix | CTtpollard: you do many small tasks that needs to be followed over time because they are ongoing. How do you see this topic? | 11:30 |
toscalix | pedroalvarez: work on more intensive tasks | 11:30 |
toscalix | is my vision true, pedroalvarez ? | 11:30 |
CTtpollard | toscalix: I'm not really sure right now | 11:31 |
toscalix | CTtpollard: ^^ | 11:31 |
toscalix | ok | 11:31 |
pedroalvarez | not sure either | 11:31 |
toscalix | so let's go for a general criteria then: something that takes longer than a week to be done should be tracked | 11:32 |
toscalix | no matter how much effort involves | 11:32 |
pedroalvarez | I'm ok with that for now :) | 11:32 |
CTtpollard | +1 | 11:32 |
toscalix | and any action that invlve contributors or other people that goes beyond a couple of days should be tracked | 11:32 |
toscalix | s/invive/involve | 11:32 |
toscalix | we need also to track any activity that is suitable to be included in the weekly report | 11:33 |
toscalix | with those three general critia...we can start | 11:33 |
toscalix | are you guys fine with that or you want to add something else/different? | 11:34 |
pedroalvarez | I'm fine | 11:34 |
toscalix | anything else about JIRA for now? | 11:35 |
pedroalvarez | _o_ | 11:35 |
CTtpollard | _o_ | 11:35 |
toscalix | let's move on then | 11:35 |
toscalix | 2.- GDP maintenance continuous delivery (CD) pipeline: discussion | 11:35 |
toscalix | pedroalvarez: link to Go? | 11:36 |
pedroalvarez | http://go.genivi.org/go/pipelines | 11:36 |
toscalix | I forgot the user/pass for guests | 11:36 |
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pedroalvarez | this one should be public | 11:36 |
pedroalvarez | USERNAME: guest PASSWORD: genivigo | 11:36 |
toscalix | I believe it will be public also, right? | 11:37 |
toscalix | now that we are using it in production | 11:37 |
pedroalvarez | that one is the guest user. It would be nice if it could be public, although I believe it's a limitation of the tool | 11:37 |
pedroalvarez | when I say public, I mean public without using any guest login | 11:37 |
toscalix | pedroalvarez: can you ask the admin about this? | 11:37 |
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pedroalvarez | heheh, that's timing | 11:38 |
toscalix | jejejeje | 11:38 |
pedroalvarez | I'll ask him, yes | 11:38 |
toscalix | ok, thanks | 11:38 |
toscalix | we are building gdp using qemu | 11:39 |
pedroalvarez | yes, we have 2 pipelines in place: | 11:39 |
toscalix | in order to have a "walking skeleton" of a CD pipeline | 11:39 |
toscalix | there is a lot to be done | 11:39 |
pedroalvarez | - One that checks patches for meta-genivi-demo | 11:40 |
pedroalvarez | - One tht checks patches for genivi-demo-platform | 11:40 |
toscalix | YOCTO based, right? | 11:40 |
pedroalvarez | at the moment they are checking for changes in the qemu-ci branch, but ideally a patch tracker should trigger the pipelines | 11:40 |
pedroalvarez | yes, YOCTO | 11:40 |
toscalix | to me is important to agree on the next step | 11:41 |
toscalix | and then I would like to create a todo list | 11:41 |
toscalix | as goal for this meeting | 11:41 |
toscalix | next step. My proposal is to create and automate very basic acceptance tests | 11:42 |
toscalix | we have talked about this before, but now that you guys are using the tool, do you still believe this should be the next step? | 11:42 |
pedroalvarez | yes, provision the qemu images to somewhere, check that it boots, and run some tests | 11:43 |
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CTtpollard | when I accept patches, I'd merge into the qemu-ci branch to the build is tested before merging to master. But yes deployment and testing will be good, especially for actual hardware | 11:44 |
toscalix | a question to me is, as maintainers, I would not want users to be able to download images that has not been tested. On the other hand, I would like contributors to be able to download images that has not been tested so they do also | 11:44 |
toscalix | CTtpollard: I think we are still a little far away from the "hardware part" | 11:45 |
CTtpollard | toscalix: definitely, my point was more, a patch may build for qemu-ci, but the patch under test could have specifics for say the renesas builds | 11:45 |
toscalix | so pedroalvarez from your sentence.... the provision images to somewhere.... part is tricky | 11:46 |
pedroalvarez | well, it is, but we are clever | 11:46 |
toscalix | I assume you have an idea of how to do it then | 11:46 |
pedroalvarez | yes :) | 11:46 |
toscalix | ok | 11:47 |
toscalix | so basic acceptance tests then | 11:47 |
toscalix | now, what else should we put in the todo list? | 11:48 |
toscalix | bad timing for asking ...... imagine we are not in Christmas | 11:48 |
pedroalvarez | create pipelines for other boards, so that we can check that builds don't crash | 11:49 |
toscalix | we have a request from the BIT team of adding Baserock pipelines | 11:49 |
toscalix | target boards, not just qemu | 11:49 |
toscalix | which boards? | 11:49 |
CTtpollard | I manually build and test for Koelsch, Porter and Intel Minnowboard Max | 11:50 |
pedroalvarez | porter, minnow, and the other beer-named one :) | 11:50 |
toscalix | I see | 11:51 |
pedroalvarez | just checking that they build. Doing that should be easy | 11:51 |
toscalix | what about gerrit? | 11:51 |
toscalix | or any other tool with same goal? | 11:51 |
pedroalvarez | well, that's my dream | 11:52 |
toscalix | can we consider doing as verification tests, before the deployment (candidate declaration) like integrity checks? | 11:53 |
toscalix | or that is way too hard for now? | 11:53 |
pedroalvarez | I don't understand that | 11:53 |
pedroalvarez | If we were using gerrit, any patch will trigger the pipeline, and then, GoCD will report to the patch as a comment | 11:54 |
toscalix | after the acceptance tests, we will need to answer the question... do we declare this image as candidate? I assume there will be some manual tests involved | 11:54 |
toscalix | that little by little we will try to automate | 11:55 |
CTtpollard | where acceptance test = the new patch builds? | 11:55 |
pedroalvarez | yes, I also assume it will be difficult to test everything that needs to be tested | 11:55 |
toscalix | CTtpollard: we need to define what we will consider as acceptance tests | 11:57 |
pedroalvarez | but not only building | 11:57 |
toscalix | to do that, we need to think about the use case and target | 11:57 |
CTtpollard | I particularly want any patch to meta-genivi-demo to be build-able for any board, so all boards can track head | 11:57 |
CTtpollard | that would be part of the acceptance, imo | 11:58 |
toscalix | example.... when you think about a server, you consider that you will deploy the system in the machine itself so network should work in order to repair any potential problem | 11:58 |
toscalix | for embeeded, the assumption is that a developer uses a second machine | 11:59 |
toscalix | either to create the image or to transfer the system on boot time | 11:59 |
toscalix | what are the acceptance tests to consider in that scenario? | 12:00 |
toscalix | anyway, that is out of topic, sorry | 12:00 |
pedroalvarez | a very basic one was that the weston.service was running | 12:00 |
pedroalvarez | true | 12:00 |
toscalix | other ideas to consider for CD? | 12:00 |
toscalix | is there a test framework that people are using at GENIVI that we can incorporate? | 12:01 |
toscalix | or set of tests? | 12:01 |
CTtpollard | I'm not aware of one | 12:01 |
toscalix | 5 more min to go | 12:02 |
pedroalvarez | https://at.projects.genivi.org/wiki/display/PROJ/Test+suite+for+GDP ? | 12:02 |
toscalix | pedroalvarez: i asked jeremiah about it. Not for production. | 12:03 |
pedroalvarez | right, but maybe an starting point for us | 12:03 |
toscalix | any other idea we should consider at this point | 12:03 |
toscalix | ? | 12:03 |
toscalix | ok, we will evaluate it | 12:03 |
toscalix | CTtpollard: anything you need on a day to day basis? | 12:04 |
toscalix | that is achivable in the coming months? | 12:05 |
toscalix | or worth evaluating | 12:05 |
CTtpollard | nothing stands out beyond what we're already aiming for and implementing | 12:05 |
toscalix | AOB then | 12:05 |
toscalix | _o_ | 12:05 |
CTtpollard | if genivi.go could provision the images it builds for manual deployment and testing that could save me time, but I'm not sure if licence complications come into that | 12:06 |
toscalix | CTtpollard: it is getting sunny in that regard | 12:06 |
toscalix | anything alse? | 12:07 |
CTtpollard | I think I'm done :) | 12:07 |
pedroalvarez | yeah me too | 12:07 |
toscalix | == GDM maintenance Team weekly Meeting end == | 12:08 |
CTtpollard | thanks | 12:08 |
toscalix | Merry Christmas guys | 12:08 |
pedroalvarez | thanks toscalix :) | 12:09 |
pedroalvarez | merry christmas | 12:09 |
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CTtpollard | Marko has actually just emailed the genivi-project list with useful information around accessing go.genivi artefacts | 12:14 |
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gunnarx | CTtpollard, it's useful info but the plan is probably not to host downloads directly from go-server | 12:25 |
gunnarx | I mean the information about how to handl artifacts is good, but we should not yet be telling people widely to go to download results using that method, is all I mean. | 12:26 |
gunnarx | I responded on the mailing list also btw | 12:26 |
CTtpollard | yeh sure, I was meaning for personal use case right now | 12:27 |
gunnarx | yep | 12:29 |
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waltminer | Ok. Here is my question. Star Wars. 3D or 2D? | 15:46 |
CTtpollard | 2D | 15:48 |
leon-anavi | I plan go to the 3D version :) | 15:49 |
CTtpollard | no spoilers waltminer! | 15:49 |
waltminer | I have not seen it yet | 15:49 |
waltminer | most like 2D for me | 15:49 |
waltminer | There is a theater near me showing it 24 hours per day starting at 7 pm tomorrow. So you can go to a 4 am showing | 15:50 |
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jlrmagnus | jeremiah, I am in the git strategy meeting. | 15:56 |
paulsherwood | git strategy? | 15:56 |
* paulsherwood wishes he was there | 15:57 | |
jlrmagnus | Jeremiah, Agustin, Philippe, and I will have a chat about genivi git strategy. | 15:57 |
jlrmagnus | Anybody else who wants to join the hangout are free to do so. | 15:57 |
paulsherwood | link? | 15:57 |
jlrmagnus | https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/jaguarlandrover.com/git-strategy | 15:58 |
waltminer | is it members only? | 15:58 |
paulsherwood | thanks... it's a bit of a pet topic... i've been banging on about git in genivi for three years or so :) | 15:58 |
jlrmagnus | You shall meet your match in Lilli | 15:58 |
waltminer | I brought it up in 2009 | 15:58 |
jlrmagnus | waltminer, You can join. | 15:59 |
jlrmagnus | Nothing secret going on here. | 16:00 |
waltminer | I will even interrupt my morning of listening to Yo La Tengo for this | 16:00 |
paulsherwood | :) | 16:01 |
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