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| Tarnyko | morning | 09:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| weston | hi all | 09:04 |
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| Tarnyko | hi folks | 11:55 |
| CTtpollard | hello | 11:55 |
| Tarnyko | hi ! | 11:56 |
| Tarnyko | I was just able to get LightMediaScanner running, along with the corresponding Rygel plugin ; they are needed by GENIVI MediaManager and corresponding demo apps. Please review : https://gerrit.automotivelinux.org/gerrit/#/c/4159/3 | 11:56 |
| Tarnyko | (GENIVI Media Manager is here : https://github.com/konsulko/tizen-distro/blob/master/meta-tizen/meta-open-ivi/recipes-apps/media-manager/media-manager.bb . Notice the "lightmediascanner" dependency) | 11:57 |
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| Tarnyko | bbl | 11:58 |
| leon-anavi | hi Tarnyko :) that's great :) | 12:18 |
| leon-anavi | It was merged quite fast, I was just looking at it. | 12:24 |
| Tarnyko | leon-anavi: hi ! just dropping my sandwich :) yeah I felt it was a good timeframe to do this | 12:28 |
| Tarnyko | just saw that ; jan-simon is back ! | 12:28 |
| leon-anavi | Tarnyko thanks! btw I created a patch directly to the c file (not vala) to fix the crash if directory /usr/lib/rygel-2.6/plugins does not exist. | 12:29 |
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| Tarnyko | leon-anavi: congrats ; maybe we could share this with the rygel folks ? pretty sure they would appreciate | 12:30 |
| Tarnyko | (didn't see the crash because i build media-export when lms is not there) | 12:31 |
| leon-anavi | I appears that I have been building it too but it was not shipped with the actual image that I flash on the device. | 12:31 |
| gunnarx | In the rygel and LMS stuff you are doing now, what's the relationship to previous mediamanager work, if any? | 12:32 |
| Tarnyko | gunnarx: afaik, mediamanager needs it to run, and that's all I know (maybe leon knows better) | 12:32 |
| leon-anavi | Tarnyko: this patch from Friday deployed and shipped plugins in my image (based the Tizen distro and Yocto release dizzy) https://github.com/konsulko/tizen-distro/commit/a0fbfda871c740e5624e8a11b2ceb1d257d1b569#diff-5fe8a6b850e54aa8c89b70e5b0ea4954 | 12:33 |
| Tarnyko | leon-anavi: yeah, the plugin stuff is tricky. Basically they always get built, but only ship if you add them to your local IMAGE_INSTALL_append or some packagegroup (by adding "rygel-plugin-lms" e.g.) | 12:34 |
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| leon-anavi | do you add something like rygel-plugin-mediamanager to your builds? | 12:35 |
| Tarnyko | thanks ! It is more an OE patch then, will see if it makes sense to send it right now (these folks are merging, with deadline 10/30) | 12:36 |
| Tarnyko | yes, right here I add the lms plugin explicitly : https://git.automotivelinux.org/gerrit/#/c/4159/3/meta-agl/recipes-ivi/packagegroups/packagegroup-agl-ivi-connectivity.bb | 12:36 |
| gunnarx | Tarnyko: Yes I think you are right that it is depending on it and maybe no one did the required bitbake integration yet? So you are saying the needed things are not in either meta-ivi or meta-genivi-demo for example? | 12:37 |
| Tarnyko | (these packagegroups always get parsed, that's defined in "poky-agl.conf" I think) | 12:37 |
| Tarnyko | gunnarx: there was an old "lightmediascanner" recipe in meta-openembedded/meta-efl, but not our version (Dizzy) | 12:38 |
| leon-anavi | Tarnyko thanks for the link I will have a look | 12:38 |
| gunnarx | ah | 12:38 |
| Tarnyko | gunnarx: what's more, Rygel itself didn't have a LMS plugin officially, because needed code was never merged upstream (it was maintained directly in Tizen IVI by Intel folks) | 12:39 |
| * paulsher1ood is confused if GENIVI Media Manager is not already integrated in GENIVI recipes | 12:40 | |
| Tarnyko | gunnarx: so I also needed to rebase this code and send it upstream again : https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=757120 (even if it seems there was already some code hangin around) | 12:40 |
| gunnarx | Tarnyko: And in media manager development I think. See also https://github.com/Pelagicore/Media-Manager-Rygel-LMS-Plugin | 12:40 |
| gunnarx | paulsher1ood: Me too but the main development was done on Tizen IVI in order to support AGL. I think it's not in GDP "yet" | 12:41 |
| Tarnyko | gunnarx: yes, I stumbled on this repo while talking with Jeremiah a few weeks ago | 12:41 |
| Tarnyko | paulsher1ood, let me look in current meta-ivi | 12:41 |
| gunnarx | I don't suspect it to be in meta-ivi. Officially the code is considered "proof of concept" in GENIVI | 12:41 |
| paulsher1ood | gunnarx: fair enough. so here we have AGL integrating it, while genivi doesn't? :-) | 12:42 |
| gunnarx | which means not in the baseline, unless it can be guaranteed to fulfil all specification requirements. baseline should be compliant, therefore we are careful with proof-of-concept which is not guaranteed to fulfil all reqs | 12:42 |
| Tarnyko | paulsher1ood, gunnarx: you're right, there's no "media" recipe in there. | 12:42 |
| Tarnyko | gunnarx: in my understanding, leon-anavi needs it for the GENIVI demos, thus I am helping | 12:43 |
| gunnarx | paulsher1ood: It was supposed to be a shared project. The naming "GENIVI" media manager probably because GENIVI funded some development | 12:43 |
| paulsher1ood | maybe this doesn't matter anyway... got the impression from what dan said to me last week that hell will freeze over before genivi and agl reuse the same recipes :) | 12:44 |
| Tarnyko | paulsher1ood: in think we could say that the first guy doing the work put it in AGL because it is more his "department" ;) | 12:44 |
| gunnarx | I hope AGL still sees this as a shared project. Not sure if the current way everyone calls it GENIVI-mediamanager is a problem - there have been a few weird statements about "GENIVI software" being good/bad/whatever. I suspect projects are rated on their merit hopefully. | 12:44 |
| gunnarx | s/suspect/expect/ | 12:45 |
| leon-anavi | Tarnyko gunnarx I am trying to get Automotive Grade Linux application suite working on Tizen distribution built with Yocto/OE. | 12:45 |
| paulsher1ood | Tarnyko: ack | 12:45 |
| gunnarx | Application suite? | 12:45 |
| * paulsher1ood thought Tizen was an ex-topic here :) | 12:45 | |
| * Tarnyko could say lots of thing about the Tizen topic :) | 12:46 | |
| gunnarx | leon-anavi: If you swapped AGL and Tizen in the above statement I would maybe understand it | 12:46 |
| leon-anavi | gunnarx yes, Automotive Grade Linux application: http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/automotive-discussions/2015-April/000303.html | 12:47 |
| Tarnyko | I guess leon means that Tizen (on Yocto) had some recipes they were relying on for the applications, seems logical to me | 12:48 |
| leon-anavi | The applications in this AGL suite have dependencies on Wayland, Weston, Crosswalk and several Crosswalk extension which provide JavaScript APIs (and their corresponding bindings to native code) | 12:49 |
| Tarnyko | leon-anavi: out of curiosity, do you know which custom JS APIs you are relying on ? | 12:50 |
| leon-anavi | Tarnyko I have been asked about this before. give me a minute or two to see where is the list :) | 12:51 |
| Tarnyko | hehe ok np, could also wait | 12:51 |
| gunnarx | Those are APIs added by Tizen IVI I believe. Isn't it the case that this stuff already runs on Tizen IVI, but not anywhere else? | 12:52 |
| Tarnyko | if it is Crosswalk, they yes Tizen IVI was the only "real" implementation (Crosswalk didn't run on general-purpose distros) | 12:53 |
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| Tarnyko | leon-anavi: by the way, as I said in the review, lightmediascanner daemons do not start automatically, but I have a series of commands to get them running if you are interested | 12:55 |
| leon-anavi | sure, I am interested :) | 12:55 |
| Tarnyko | putting this on hastebin for convenience : http://hastebin.com/lomugonaba.hs | 12:56 |
| leon-anavi | Tarnyko is it something similar to this script for the Media Manager app (in the AGL app suite) ? https://github.com/PDXostc/media_manager-app/blob/master/mm | 12:56 |
| Tarnyko | leon-anavi, looking | 12:57 |
| leon-anavi | I am also looking :) | 12:57 |
| leon-anavi | it seems similar to the mm script for the Media Manager app. | 12:58 |
| Tarnyko | yes, this script does it the SystemV way, basically it only needs some bit of systemd fancying | 12:58 |
| Tarnyko | ideally there would be 2 systemd units (rygel.service and lightmediascanner.service) sharing some default royalty-free media files ; on TIzen we had the well-known BigBuckDanny video preinstalled I think | 12:59 |
| paulsher1ood | s/Danny/Bunny/ i believe | 13:00 |
| Tarnyko | paulsher1ood: correct :) | 13:00 |
| leon-anavi | I think we all know very well that video :) | 13:01 |
| Tarnyko | hehe. well, this fits more into "meta-agl-demo"if we want this to happen | 13:01 |
| leon-anavi | Tarnyko I am unable to find the exact list of Tizen specific APIs on which the AGL app suite depends but a quick grep into the directory of the JS source code shows: | 13:01 |
| leon-anavi | application, bluetooth, phone, vehicle, speech, audiosystem | 13:03 |
| leon-anavi | my grep statement is not very precise so may be I am missing some APIs | 13:04 |
| paulsher1ood | what is a tizen-specific API? how does that work post-tizen? | 13:05 |
| Tarnyko | tizen.application.launch, tizen.phone.call , these kind of things of suppose. Yes they were all living in the crosswalk tizen extensions | 13:05 |
| leon-anavi | exactly! | 13:05 |
| leon-anavi | and there is a JavaScript object tizen through which these APIs are used. | 13:05 |
| Tarnyko | paulsher1ood: these are web APIs, you call them from JS. Basically Crosswalk extended Chromium's web engine to provide them | 13:05 |
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| leon-anavi | these APIs fit the gap between W3C defined JavaScript APIs and the features needed for standalone HTML5/JS applications for the automotive (and not only) | 13:07 |
| Tarnyko | leon-anavi: when I was bored on day, I tried to get Crosswalk running on QEMU/Renesas boards with AGL, but failed miserably. Did this even work on Tizen IVI with QEMU back then, do you remember ? (I don't think so) | 13:08 |
| paulsher1ood | can someone point me to the upstream for these apis? | 13:08 |
| waltminer | good morning | 13:08 |
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| Tarnyko | waltminer: good morning | 13:08 |
| Tarnyko | paulsher1ood: https://developer.tizen.org/dev-guide/web/2.3.0/org.tizen.mobile.web.device.apireference/index.html | 13:08 |
| paulsher1ood | Tarnyko: tvm | 13:09 |
| waltminer | Is the tools meeting now? Did Europe change time over the weekend? | 13:09 |
| leon-anavi | Tarnyko I remember that I got Tizen IVI working on QEMU on my laptop (with Intel i5 CPU) several months ago. I has been a while but I think Crosswalk was included in that image. | 13:09 |
| leon-anavi | It was a pre-built image (with GBS, not Yocto) that I downloaded for download.tizen.org | 13:10 |
| paulsher1ood | waltminer: fair question... it changed in UK, i had *assumed* it changd in EU | 13:10 |
| paulsher1ood | it's changed in EU... you're early | 13:10 |
| waltminer | USA changes next weekend | 13:10 |
| rjek | UK and EU both change at the same moment | 13:10 |
| leon-anavi | paulsher1ood let me find the upstream of the APIs (actually just of the Crosswalk extensions) | 13:10 |
| Tarnyko | leon-anavi: ok, very interesting... maybe I should grab it too, to see where the technical gap is | 13:11 |
| paulsher1ood | leon-anavi: tvm... i'm wonrdering mainly where the actual code is | 13:11 |
| rjek | I believe this tweet of mine from last year is relevant https://twitter.com/rjek/status/521971823848996864 | 13:11 |
| Tarnyko | rjek: :D | 13:11 |
| leon-anavi | Tarnyko: here is how you can get it working with QEMU: https://wiki.tizen.org/wiki/Emulator#Tizen:Common_on_qemu-yagl_:_ia32 | 13:12 |
| waltminer | nice | 13:12 |
| Tarnyko | leon-anavi: cool, thank you ! | 13:12 |
| leon-anavi | Tarnyko: make sure that you are building QEMU with YAGL from scratch | 13:12 |
| leon-anavi | Alternatively, you can run Tizen:Common and Tizen IVI in VWware. | 13:13 |
| Tarnyko | ah yes YaGL, we don't have this under AGL, and justly crosswalk fails with gpu-related error messages... seeing a pattern here | 13:13 |
| leon-anavi | and btw my experience shows that you cannot run Wayland/Weston with hardware acceleration in Virtualbox | 13:14 |
| Tarnyko | leon-anavi: yeah, it only works very basically with VMware, because Mesa has a partly functional vmwgfx driver (crosswalk still doesn't run) | 13:15 |
| leon-anavi | paulsher1ood I think that this is the upstream of the Crosswalk extensions for Tizen 3: https://review.tizen.org/gerrit/gitweb?p=platform%2Fframework%2Fweb%2Ftizen-extensions-crosswalk.git;a=shortlog;h=refs%2Fheads%2Ftizen | 13:15 |
| leon-anavi | btw you will need a Tizen Gerrit account to browse the repo. | 13:16 |
| paulsher1ood | so much for open source, then. i'm not signing up for that. | 13:16 |
| Tarnyko | leon-anavi: this topic interests me a lot, I have begun working on a backport for QEMU accelerated GPU support (https://github.com/iotbzh/meta-agl/tree/virtio_gpu) , totally forgot about YaGL. If I ever make some progress, I'll let you know. | 13:16 |
| leon-anavi | hm... interesting it seems that the documentation about writing Tizen extensions for Crosswalk using the C and C++ programming language is not longer available at crosswalk-project.org | 13:18 |
| Tarnyko | paulsher1ood: there is an anonymous access floating around here : https://review.tizen.org/git/?p=platform/framework/web/tizen-extensions-crosswalk.git;a=summary | 13:18 |
| leon-anavi | Tarnyko I am not really familiar with details about meta-agl. Is Crosswalk part of it? | 13:18 |
| paulsher1ood | Tarnyko: tvm | 13:19 |
| Tarnyko | leon-anavi: no, at least not currently, and anyways it would require some of this GPU stuff. Basically you get the binary, but it crashes when trying to display something on screen. henre the yagl/virtio hacks (honestly, gpu-speaking, crosswalk is a beast) | 13:21 |
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| Tarnyko | need to regress-test a patch, bb in 15 minutes | 13:21 |
| leon-anavi | Tarnyko indeed, I have personal experience with getting Crosswalk to work on i.MX6 and I confirm it is a huge beast. | 13:22 |
| paulsher1ood | why is that a good thing for automotive? | 13:22 |
| paulsher1ood | or put another way, is Crosswalk 'automotive grade' ? | 13:23 |
| leon-anavi | paulsher1ood who said it is a good thing :) ? | 13:25 |
| paulsher1ood | i ask in part because i got told strongly last week that some GENIVI choices are not suitable for AGL... hence I'm wondering what's better about choices AGL is specifically making | 13:25 |
| CTtpollard | has anyone tried to build gdp with the instructions provided by Amir on the ML & http://wiki.projects.genivi.org/index.php/Hardware_Setup_and_Software_Installation/Rpi2 I've worked through many errors and ended up with a rootfs | 13:27 |
| paulsher1ood | CTtpollard: why do you ask? doesn't it boot/work? | 13:30 |
| CTtpollard | paulsher1ood: I've got it deployed and booting, but I'm missing weston in systemd | 13:32 |
| CTtpollard | although I may have just found the issue | 13:32 |
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| CTtpollard | the provided meta-genivi-demo patch had a file extension typo so genivi changes were not being appended | 13:40 |
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| kooltux` | hi walt | 13:55 |
| waltminer | hi stephane | 13:56 |
| kooltux` | getting ready for the call in 5mn | 13:57 |
| waltminer | ok | 13:57 |
| waltminer | just got a fresh cup of coffee so I am ready to go | 13:58 |
| kooltux` | same for me :) | 13:58 |
| paulsher1ood | == GENIVI Tools Team Meeting Starts == | 14:00 |
| paulsher1ood | hi folks | 14:00 |
| gmacario | Hi there! | 14:01 |
| paulsher1ood | i've opened the webex line if folks are interested... | 14:01 |
| paulsher1ood | http://genivi.webex.com should give you a link | 14:01 |
| CTtpollard | ;Q | 14:01 |
| paulsher1ood | gmacario: are you back in europe now? | 14:02 |
| * CTtpollard apologises | 14:02 | |
| gmacario | Yes I am | 14:02 |
| gunnarx | calling in | 14:02 |
| * paulsher1ood hopes he dialled the right number... he seems to be alone on the call | 14:02 | |
| * paulsher1ood can hear gunnarx | 14:03 | |
| waltminer | there is a call? I thought it was still IRC only | 14:03 |
| paulsher1ood | waltminer: we'll document here, so you don't need to call in if you prefer not to | 14:03 |
| gmacario | I have troubles dialing in, will stay in IRC only | 14:03 |
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| waltminer | I am on another call | 14:03 |
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| paulsher1ood | that's a couple of reasons for preferring irc meetigns | 14:04 |
| klausbirken | Hi | 14:04 |
| paulsher1ood | hi klausbirken ! | 14:04 |
| paulsher1ood | i'm sorry the F2F for tools team got completely derailed... | 14:04 |
| waltminer | kooltux_ are you having a problem with the audio? | 14:05 |
| klausbirken | why? haven't looked for minutes yet | 14:05 |
| paulsher1ood | i ended up in discussions about AGL at the alotted tim | 14:05 |
| paulsher1ood | time | 14:05 |
| paulsher1ood | and those discussions were a bit disappointing i must say | 14:05 |
| paulsher1ood | anyways... | 14:06 |
| paulsher1ood | my pre-agenda... | 14:06 |
| klausbirken | should we call in on webex audio? | 14:06 |
| paulsher1ood | klausbirken: you are welcome to... but i'm typing as fast as i can | 14:06 |
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| paulsher1ood | == Merge of BIT and Tools Team == | 14:07 |
| paulsher1ood | (no decision has been made... just discussion/thinking) | 14:07 |
| gunnarx | philrob says the above ^^ | 14:07 |
| gunnarx | paulsher1ood: I can help out scribing some notes from the audio call | 14:08 |
| paulsher1ood | philrob summarises that bit tends to increase activity at baseline release times | 14:08 |
| paulsher1ood | gunnarx: tvm | 14:08 |
| gunnarx | philrob says, BIT has in the past worked on various topics related to requirements and execution of both GDP and automated tests | 14:09 |
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| gunnarx | philrob says, AFAIK the TT does not really provide project management right now. TT is better working on requirements / sharing? It's an open question - please provide input | 14:10 |
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| gunnarx | paulsher1ood says, similar people attend the two team meetings | 14:11 |
| gunnarx | paulsher1ood says, TT have been successful encouraging more work in the open | 14:12 |
| gunnarx | paulsher1ood says, wondering is there additional BIT work that we can get in the open. | 14:13 |
| gmacario | paulsher1ood: Do you have specific ideas in mind? AFAIK main BIT deliverables (i.e. Baselines) are already in the open | 14:14 |
| jeremiah | And much of the BIT work is project managment, i.e. managing the releases and point releases. | 14:15 |
| gunnarx | paulsher1ood says, if we have some combination we want to make sure we can work openly | 14:15 |
| jeremiah | In what way is it not open? | 14:16 |
| gunnarx | philrob says, , there should not be that much private in BIT | 14:16 |
| gunnarx | jeremiah: agreed, that's the sentiment on the call right now | 14:16 |
| paulsher1ood | its proceedings are documented in private (more for historical reasons) and its meetings are not held in the open iiuc | 14:16 |
| gunnarx | gunnarx says, In my opinion key deliverable from BIT is the baseline, the rest is a bonus. | 14:17 |
| paulsher1ood | the results of BIT (baselines, GDP) have been made public consistently over several years | 14:17 |
| gmacario | gunnarx: +1 | 14:17 |
| jeremiah | gunnarx: +1 | 14:17 |
| gunnarx | gunnarx says, other deliverables (GDP, automated testing) need to be included in a combined group | 14:18 |
| gunnarx | paulsher1ood says, GDP is a key deliverable | 14:18 |
| paulsher1ood | GDP ccould and should be considered a key deliverable too :) | 14:18 |
| gunnarx | gunnarx says +1 | 14:18 |
| jeremiah | I don't think there is anything blocking the BIT from publishing its minutes on the public wiki if that was wanted. | 14:18 |
| philrob | ++1 | 14:18 |
| jeremiah | paulsher1ood: But much of that is being done *outside* of the BIT (i.e. GDP) | 14:19 |
| jeremiah | GDP gets reported into PMO | 14:19 |
| paulsher1ood | true | 14:19 |
| gunnarx | jeremiah: we do some baseline planning related to the compliance aspect of baseline. This part is a GENIVI internal meeting. The result is published as part of meta-ivi however | 14:19 |
| jeremiah | And we're not getting open minutes from there either. | 14:19 |
| philrob | GDP reported to PMO because of the BIT leadership position only | 14:20 |
| jeremiah | Umm, okay. | 14:20 |
| jeremiah | That's a little weird to be noting after there have been two releases coordinated via PMO, but okay. | 14:20 |
| jeremiah | It makes sense that the GDP comes into the BIT. | 14:21 |
| philrob | no, it is not weird, it was just a countermeasure to get prepared for Seoul AMM | 14:21 |
| gunnarx | paulsher1ood says, in order to get more adoption of for example CommonAPI / Franca they should be more discussed / promoted in the context of baselines and other systems | 14:21 |
| philrob | +1 | 14:21 |
| klausbirken | +1 | 14:22 |
| jeremiah | I don't think that more discussion will make a difference frankly. | 14:22 |
| jeremiah | Many companies know about Common API and some choose not to use it. | 14:22 |
| paulsher1ood | jeremiah: show me the code :) | 14:22 |
| jeremiah | paulsher1ood: Show me the code. :-) | 14:22 |
| jeremiah | Show me someone who doesn't know about CAPI and Franca | 14:23 |
| paulsher1ood | noted | 14:23 |
| gunnarx | paulsher1ood, what's next step in discussing BIT/TT join | 14:23 |
| gunnarx | discussing if there are any conflicts or problems... | 14:25 |
| paulsher1ood | BIT discussion of planning for compliance could not be conducted in public, the rest could | 14:25 |
| jeremiah | paulsher1ood: +1 | 14:26 |
| gunnarx | +1, not setting GENIVI policy here, just this is the current working model. All artifacts are open. | 14:26 |
| jeremiah | Yep, and we can publish minutes publicly. | 14:26 |
| gunnarx | meta-ivi input could be received, discussed and acted upon as a normal public project. meta-ivi processes for the actual code is to receive public patches. | 14:28 |
| gunnarx | I am saying baseline is one thing, meta-ivi could be _more_ than that (using branches), completely up to meta-ivi maintainer | 14:28 |
| paulsher1ood | next step would be to propose a revised charter (not on irc) | 14:29 |
| jeremiah | :-) | 14:29 |
| gunnarx | paulsher1ood, philrob trying to work out what next steps are... | 14:30 |
| jeremiah | I think a charter that pointed to shared responsbility in the BIT would be a huge advantage for GENIVI | 14:30 |
| jeremiah | Might remove potential issues should maintainers be called into production projects for example | 14:30 |
| paulsher1ood | jeremiah: please could you expand on that? | 14:30 |
| paulsher1ood | oh, i see what you mean... | 14:31 |
| jeremiah | Well, we shouldn't have a singlye commiter | 14:31 |
| gunnarx | I don't. Can you clarify, "shared responsibility in the BIT?" | 14:31 |
| paulsher1ood | so we could avoid a repear of the the sitaution where a maintainer goes AWOL | 14:31 |
| jeremiah | Exactly. | 14:31 |
| paulsher1ood | leaving the project screwed for a few months | 14:31 |
| jeremiah | Having mutliple parties able to commit will prevent a single point of failure | 14:31 |
| gunnarx | It's not clear which project you're talking about. Jeremiah said BIT, do you mean meta-ivi? | 14:31 |
| jeremiah | Sorry, more meta-ivi than BIT | 14:32 |
| gunnarx | ok. +1 | 14:32 |
| paulsher1ood | i meant individual projects, yes, not BIT | 14:32 |
| gunnarx | paulsher1ood says, action is on me and philrob? | 14:32 |
| gunnarx | agreed | 14:32 |
| paulsher1ood | ACTION: paulsher1ood and philrob to consider revised charter? | 14:32 |
| gmacario | We should already have a similar requirements for Open Source Projects, right? | 14:32 |
| jeremiah | gmacario: Yep | 14:32 |
| paulsher1ood | can we just re-use something from there? | 14:32 |
| paulsher1ood | shall we move on? | 14:33 |
| gmacario | +1 | 14:33 |
| paulsher1ood | == TT Collaboration with AGL == | 14:33 |
| gunnarx | yes. we try to require 2 maintainers as a sign of a healthy project | 14:33 |
| gunnarx | what tools are AGL envisioning? | 14:34 |
| gunnarx | any needs, requirements known so far? | 14:34 |
| gunnarx | paulsher1ood, primarily it would be CIAT | 14:34 |
| gmacario | AFAIK AGL is currently using Jenkins as CI tool | 14:34 |
| gunnarx | gmacario: +1, also mentioned now in call | 14:35 |
| * paulsher1ood has found that there is top-level resistance (from AGL) to actual collaboration between AGL and GENIVI | 14:35 | |
| jeremiah | I think there automated testing set up using Jenkins and Ctest is something that we ought to look at. | 14:36 |
| paulsher1ood | so maybe this topic will die | 14:36 |
| gunnarx | I have also asked about this but I think it's hard - AGL wants to "move fast" (own words) and integrate their things | 14:36 |
| paulsher1ood | is anyone here interested to keep it alive? | 14:36 |
| paulsher1ood | waltminer for example? | 14:36 |
| gunnarx | I fear organizations may need/want their own infra in order to guarantee availability and focus on their strategic parts. Maybe. | 14:36 |
| paulsher1ood | (and their own people :-) ) | 14:37 |
| gmacario | If we have a way of sharing investments I believe this is a good thing to try | 14:37 |
| jeremiah | gmacario: What do you see as "low hanging fruit"? | 14:37 |
| gunnarx | paulsher1ood showed baserock CIAT. AGL not using... Other several ideas around CIAT are brewing... so maybe come back to the topic later. | 14:38 |
| gmacario | Setting up the same CI tool maybe | 14:38 |
| paulsher1ood | gmacario: in theory yes, in practice not so | 14:38 |
| gmacario | We as GENIVI do not have daily builds | 14:38 |
| jeremiah | gmacario: No does AGL. | 14:38 |
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| jeremiah | s/No/Nor/ | 14:39 |
| gmacario | What about https://build.automotivelinux.org/ | 14:39 |
| gunnarx | gmacario, it only matters if we have the exact same server - so that anyone can input recipes that they want into that | 14:39 |
| paulsher1ood | 'daily builds' is not necessarily the right way to do things | 14:39 |
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| * paulsher1ood proposes to got to normal Tools Team business | 14:39 | |
| waltminer | AGL is doing Jenkins builds on every propsed change and after every commit | 14:40 |
| paulsher1ood | andreas has no topics for today | 14:40 |
| waltminer | so it is not a “daily build”. | 14:40 |
| gunnarx | +1 it's more than builds - deployment, testing... Let me show you an idea at a later time. I may write up an email since we want to move on. | 14:40 |
| gunnarx | waltminer, understood. I think we're trying to move on. | 14:40 |
| waltminer | ok I just saw the topic. | 14:41 |
| gunnarx | np walt | 14:41 |
| gunnarx | klaus says, Franca presentation update in Seoul. Feedback? | 14:41 |
| gmacario | k.aus: I liked it as usual | 14:41 |
| gunnarx | philrob says, we're missing some people who may have feedback. can we postpone? | 14:41 |
| paulsher1ood | philrob proposes to get feeedback next week | 14:41 |
| gmacario | +1 | 14:41 |
| paulsher1ood | most people have not collected their thoughts sicne the AMM | 14:42 |
| klausbirken1 | gmacario: thx | 14:42 |
| gunnarx | paulsher1ood, let's collect up the topics now, get feedback next week | 14:42 |
| gunnarx | ^^ paulsher1ood says | 14:42 |
| paulsher1ood | AOB for today? | 14:42 |
| gunnarx | gunnarx says, klaus: are you using franca_install_automation for testing, any issues? | 14:44 |
| gunnarx | klausbirken1 says, will use it for testing again when next release is ready. | 14:44 |
| gunnarx | paulsher1ood plugs the livecast of the baserock hands on | 14:45 |
| gunnarx | klaus says, link? | 14:45 |
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| paulsher1ood | https://t.co/V2pevEDynq | 14:45 |
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| paulsher1ood | gunnarx is proposing to show a demo of CIAT using gocd | 14:48 |
| gunnarx | http://go.cd | 14:48 |
| paulsher1ood | for interested parties (via the webex) | 14:48 |
| gunnarx | It's a tool I've fallen in love with :) | 14:48 |
| * paulsher1ood proposes to close the TT meeting | 14:48 | |
| paulsher1ood | == TT Meeting Ends == | 14:49 |
| paulsher1ood | gunnarx will demonstrate CIAT pipelines using go.cd at genvi.webex.com if folks are interested | 14:49 |
| jeremiah | go cd +1 | 14:49 |
| paulsher1ood | jeremiah: :) | 14:49 |
| fredcadete | omg a CI with pipelines | 14:50 |
| paulsher1ood | fredcadete: yup :) | 14:50 |
| jeremiah | Ugh. Webex is not free software!!! | 14:51 |
| * jeremiah has to scurry to his proprietary^W^W^WAndroid Linux machine | 14:51 | |
| paulsher1ood | jeremiah: neither is Jira, or Confluence | 14:52 |
| jeremiah | At least I can use them with GNU/Linux | 14:53 |
| jeremiah | Though I don't think we should use them either.\ | 14:53 |
| fredcadete | jeremiah: webex doesn't work from Linux? | 14:54 |
| fredcadete | which browser? | 14:54 |
| jeremiah | fredcadete: Chrome on Debian | 14:54 |
| jeremiah | fredcadete: I don't install Oracle linux. | 14:54 |
| jeremiah | Or rather chromium on Debian | 14:55 |
| CTtpollard | flash? | 14:55 |
| fredcadete | it needs java | 14:56 |
| CTtpollard | ughh | 14:57 |
| fredcadete | I am using it from Linux with Firefox and Java | 14:57 |
| fredcadete | don't tell the attackers | 14:57 |
| jeremiah | heh | 15:02 |
| jeremiah | fredcadete: Which Java are you using? OpenJDK? | 15:03 |
| c0dd3r5 | jeremiah: I can make webex work here if I install the i386 libs - did you do that already? | 15:12 |
| c0dd3r5 | sudo apt install libpangoxft-1.0-0:i386 libxv1:i386 libpangox-1.0-0:i386 | 15:13 |
| c0dd3r5 | https://askubuntu.com/questions/488001/how-can-i-use-cisco-webex-in-firefox-on-64-bit-ubuntu-14-04 | 15:13 |
| c0dd3r5 | if that helps | 15:13 |
| c0dd3r5 | can't share my screen though | 15:13 |
| c0dd3r5 | https://askubuntu.com/questions/368270/how-to-i-make-cisco-webex-work-with-13-10-64bit <- that's the better link | 15:14 |
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| gunnarx | fredcadete: go.cd is a tool to really grow into, more than jenkins in fact. The pipelines can really be arbitrarily complex. | 15:28 |
| paulsher1ood | gunnarx: you make it sound like complexity is a good thing :) | 15:29 |
| gunnarx | :) You know what I mean | 15:29 |
| paulsher1ood | i do | 15:29 |
| gunnarx | I'd like to use same/similar tool as AGL but go.cd is appropriate for what we (AGL,GENIVI) need to do IMHO - it's more than build in the long run -- deploy and test on different embedded hardwares | 15:29 |
| paulsher1ood | iiuc agl understands that, just wanted something up-and-running fast. | 15:29 |
| paulsher1ood | the current jenkins implementation is seen as a short-term thing | 15:30 |
| gunnarx | yes I got that | 15:30 |
| gunnarx | Positive feedback now, so not unlikely GENIVI want to try this out. I hope we can continue the discussion on if we can build a infrastructure benefiting all of automotive | 15:32 |
| gunnarx | A key point to make that a reality is the ability for multiple people/companies/whoever to define their own build jobs on it | 15:32 |
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| gunnarx | AGL/GENIVI really only need to build each software once after all. | 15:33 |
| gunnarx | But it is an area that doesn't cost *that* much if duplicated, not like duplicating engineering effort! | 15:34 |
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| paulsher1ood | :) | 15:35 |
| jeremiah | c0dd3r5: Thanks, I'll check out those links | 15:39 |
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| fredcadete | not having clear pipelines is Jenkins's biggest gap for me | 15:43 |
| fredcadete | as an user of Jenkins | 15:43 |
| gunnarx | fredcadete - I agree. I haven't found any other OSS project using Go(?) even though it is Apache licensed. Maybe the open source licensing is quite new. | 15:45 |
| gunnarx | Maybe they just haven't seen how great it is yet :) | 15:45 |
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| jeremiah | Using Go? Or Go CD? | 15:46 |
| gunnarx | Go CD | 15:46 |
| jeremiah | Its a bit confusing because I think of it as "golang" but I guess it has nothing to do with that. | 15:46 |
| gunnarx | yep | 15:46 |
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| gunnarx | I think they pretty much changed to the name GoCD because Google destroyed their previous name :) | 15:47 |
| jeremiah | ah | 15:47 |
| gunnarx | It's written in Java. Not everyone's fav language but enough developers to keep it very robust... You need only openjdk as dependency | 15:48 |
| gunnarx | Jenkins is also in Java right? | 15:48 |
| jeremiah | Yes (from what I know) | 15:48 |
| jeremiah | I can't imagine Java being a problem because they seem to be compatible with OpenJDK | 15:49 |
| jeremiah | And those who complain about Java are probably just whiners and perl users. :P | 15:49 |
| gunnarx | go.cd devs seem really serious about robustness and quality I have found | 15:49 |
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| gunnarx | sometimes embodied in the same person ;) | 15:50 |
| jeremiah | Indeed. | 15:50 |
| * jeremiah goes back to his oneliners. | 15:50 | |
| fredcadete | yes jenkins is Java | 15:51 |
| rjek | Is go.cd in go? | 15:51 |
| fredcadete | I complain about Jenkins when I have to look at a plugin's source, but I am a whiner | 15:51 |
| gunnarx | rjek: see above | 15:51 |
| * rjek has significant dislike for things in go atm given so many go products' build systems essentially git glone from github at build time | 15:51 | |
| gunnarx | fredcadete: I suspect the same for go.cd plugins I'm afraid. Haven't looked at their API though. There's a capable HTTP API so you might build extensions that way unless you need something new. | 15:52 |
| fredcadete | nvm, it'll be about the same whining with HTTP API's | 15:53 |
| gunnarx | then I can't help you :) | 15:53 |
| * CTtpollard has some form of gdp running on raspi2 | 16:02 | |
| * fredcadete applauses | 16:04 | |
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| Tarnyko | waltminer: still around ? | 16:08 |
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| CTtpollard | seem to be having a problem with the drm backend however | 16:17 |
| CTtpollard | so stuck with a blank screen | 16:17 |
| pedroalvarez | I was debugging that board and found: http://paste.baserock.org/urivokuyoc | 16:18 |
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| fredcadete | doesn't the raspberry pi have its own weston backend? | 16:20 |
| fredcadete | or was that only for rpi 1? | 16:21 |
| fredcadete | http://cgit.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston/tree/src/compositor-rpi.c | 16:21 |
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| pedroalvarez | oh, do you mean the rpi-backend? I can't see it in the system | 16:22 |
| leon-anavi | Tarnyko I backported your commit in meta-agl to the distro that I am using. Now rygel, lightmediascannerd and LMS plugin for rygel are working. Not sure if they are working fine but at least they are not crashing :) | 16:22 |
| fredcadete | disclaimer: I haven't tried weston on rpi, I am just opinionating | 16:23 |
| pedroalvarez | CTtpollard: I think what you are missing is enabling "vc4" when building mesa | 16:23 |
| Tarnyko | leon-anavi: nice, congrats :) ! Sounds like we'll soon have nice demo apps coming ;) | 16:24 |
| pedroalvarez | fredcadete: you are right, I tried to use that backend when building GDP for raspberrypi using Baserock, but I finally managed to do it with the drm-backend | 16:24 |
| fredcadete | pedroalvarez: great, if it can work with the normal drm backend then that should be better | 16:25 |
| pedroalvarez | it is, only problem is that kernel patches are not merged upstream yet | 16:26 |
| pedroalvarez | *patches to make drm backend work | 16:26 |
| CTtpollard | pedroalvarez: I'll try and look through the conf & recipes in the meta-raspi layer and local.conf | 16:26 |
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| leon-anavi | Tarnyko we already have a few demo apps working: Homescreen, Browser and Google Maps. Eventually, the Media Manager might be working too :) | 16:27 |
| pedroalvarez | CTtpollard: I can point you to how we build "mesa" in Baserock if you wish :) | 16:27 |
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| * Tarnyko would really like to see the Google Maps thing running | 16:28 | |
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| leon-anavi | Tarnyko Google Maps demo is quite static although it is nice (for a demo app) | 16:29 |
| CTtpollard | :q | 16:29 |
| CTtpollard | not vim | 16:29 |
| Tarnyko | leon-anavi: hehe ok, otherwise you'd depend on geolocation capabilities of your platform and that's a bit harsh for a first run | 16:30 |
| leon-anavi | :) | 16:30 |
| jlrmagnus | gunnarx, Are you there? | 16:31 |
| leon-anavi | Tarnyko well... in my opinion all these HTML5 applications from AGL app suite are just for basic demonstration ;) | 16:31 |
| Tarnyko | AGL spec states that we should have GPS by the way, so we'll likely have gpsd here some day | 16:31 |
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| Tarnyko | leon-anavi Tizen IVI html5 apps, among others, were all in this style ;) this isn't so bad for demonstration purposes, as long as it has some eye-candy | 16:33 |
| leon-anavi | Tarnyko these apps seem better than Modello apps :) | 16:34 |
| Tarnyko | leon-anavi ok :) I guess that because you are mentioning browser and HTML5 a lot, the "web engine on AGL" topic needs to be adressed soon, at least before your deadline | 16:36 |
| Tarnyko | leon-anavi I'll be looking at that, just that I'll be flying abroat from next Wesdesndey to next Monday, and thus will be quite busy for a few days | 16:37 |
| leon-anavi | Tarnyko right... actually because of this I am using Tizen on Yocto. I have been working on this for a while and by the time I started it seem the best option to get things working. | 16:37 |
| leon-anavi | Tarnyko Is there any other open source app suite apart from Modello and AGL (the one that I am using) which might be useful for the same purposes? May be something with Qt/QML? | 16:38 |
| Tarnyko | leon-anavi yes, you are relying on crosswalk because of its custom APIs, crosswalk which unfortunately does not work on AGL images yet ; this will need to be adressed for anybody working on demo apps | 16:39 |
| leon-anavi | Tarnyko yes, exactly :) I think you understand my pain very well :) | 16:39 |
| Tarnyko | leon-anavi Qt5/WebEngine works well on AGL, is based on Blink's Chromium since version 5.5, and I was even able to get some of the Modello apps to work partially (see https://github.com/iotbzh/AGL/tree/modello-homescreen-demo) | 16:40 |
| leon-anavi | nice, I will have a look | 16:40 |
| Tarnyko | leon-anavi little problem, it doesn't all the custom APIs you are looking for (I had to disable all "tizen.*" calls to make it work). Although it can be extended, but we need to check such details with the Qt folks | 16:42 |
| Tarnyko | *doesn't have | 16:42 |
| leon-anavi | Tarnyko I was sure that it doesn't have these APIs :) but it is still a good start | 16:43 |
| leon-anavi | actually it is not just about the APIs because these API communicate with the underlaying platform components | 16:43 |
| Tarnyko | leon-anavi you are implying that tizen.phone* communicates with Ofono e.g., correct ? | 16:44 |
| leon-anavi | Tarnyko yes, because ofono is used in both Tizen:Common and Tizen IVI | 16:44 |
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| Tarnyko | leon-anavi Ofono is a nice piece of software, and literally the only good FOSS choice for a telephony server ; hency why we have it in AGL since recently (https://git.automotivelinux.org/gerrit/#/c/4143/) | 16:46 |
| leon-anavi | Tarnyko if you are interested here is how you can pair over Bluetooth a dev board with Tizen (built using Yocto) to a smartphone and make a phone call using ofono https://wiki.tizen.org/wiki/Connecting_to_a_Smartphone_with_Bluetooth_and_Making_Phone_Calls | 16:46 |
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| Tarnyko | leon-anavi Thanks for the pointer ! keeping this | 16:46 |
| leon-anavi | Tarnyko I did this demo with bluez5 and ofono a month or two ago. I have tested it on several devices (Intel NUC, rpi2, and i.MX6 devices) | 16:47 |
| Tarnyko | ho, but it is fully Yocto-compliant, and looks simple too | 16:48 |
| Tarnyko | an AGL API equivalent to "tizen.phone*" would likely do such steps behind the scenes, called from your HTML5 app and interpreted by the web engine | 16:49 |
| Tarnyko | personally, my target for AGL is to fill all the "holes" where there is no underlying software for such a purpose (documented by the AGL spec, and thus likely needed by applications) ; only the web engine topic itself needs a bit of coordination | 16:50 |
| Tarnyko | leon-anavi Have to go, see you tomorrow, don't hesitate to ping me :) | 16:51 |
| leon-anavi | see you :) | 16:52 |
| Tarnyko | bye | 16:52 |
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