IRC logs for #automotive for Monday, 2015-08-10

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jeremiahOHAI!07:48
jonathanmawmorning jeremiah07:48
jeremiahHi Jonathan!07:49
jeremiahHave you seen your colleague Mr. Pollard?07:49
jeremiahI don't see him here on IRC>07:49
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jeremiahI merely wanted to tell him to add his name to the MAINTAINERs file here: http://git.projects.genivi.org/?p=meta-genivi-demo.git;a=blob;f=MAINTAINERS;h=bd23ae9d7cb7f3fd0924b14df79a56535efc0c81;hb=HEAD07:50
jeremiahKlausUhl: Wie gehts!07:51
KlausUhljeremiah: Gut, danke. Und selbst?07:56
jeremiahGut vielen danke.08:05
jeremiahAnd there, we've exhausted my German. :-)08:05
KlausUhl:-)08:05
jeremiahWell, there's always "Bitte ein Bitte"08:06
KlausUhlYou mean "Bitte ein Bit", do you?08:06
jonathanmawjeremiah: he's here as CTtpollard, though he's not in the office, yet, so that's probably just his bouncer.08:06
jeremiahPerhaps I do.08:06
jeremiahjonathanmaw: Thanks!08:06
KlausUhlIf you are talking about beer then you do :-)08:07
jeremiahheh08:07
jeremiahI love to talk about beer in Germany. :-)08:07
jeremiahDrink it too08:07
KlausUhlI usually prefer wine and whisky but beer is fine, too.08:08
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FelixHmh, wine ?09:20
FelixH=)09:20
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paulsherwoodGENIVI Tools Team meeting will start in just over one hour11:50
paulsherwood(this will be our first attempt to conduct this meeting on irc only)11:51
paulsherwooddraft agenda is at http://wiki.projects.genivi.org/index.php/TT/minutes/2015081011:51
paulsherwoodplease feel free to suggest additional items there or here :)11:51
jeremiahpaulsherwood: Should we have an 'attendees' section?11:53
paulsherwoodnah :)11:53
jeremiahk11:53
jeremiahShould we have a link to the logs?11:53
paulsherwoodi discussed this with colleagues earlier.. formalising attendees might discourage drive-by contributions11:53
jeremiahShould we have a custom ponicon as an avatar?11:53
jeremiahpaulsherwood: Fair enough.11:54
paulsherwoodwhat is a ponicon? :)11:54
jeremiahLMGTFY11:54
jeremiahOoops.11:54
jeremiahI meant ponycorn11:54
jeremiahheh11:54
jeremiahSometimes spelled ponicorn11:55
paulsherwoodin other channels i have told folks off for 'LMGTFY' :)11:55
jeremiahheh11:55
paulsherwoodwe can't all know all the tricks all the time :-)11:55
jeremiahI thought this was IRC, we're all wizards.11:56
paulsherwoodi've added link to logs (if i understood your suggestion correctly)11:56
jeremiahYep, thanks11:56
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* paulsherwood heads oto skype to see if joel is all hooked up11:57
paulsherwoodhe appears to be confident :)11:59
paulsherwoodjeremiah: in the meantime, did you have any thoughts on the CIAT doc that was sent to the list?12:05
* paulsherwood is assuming that jeremiah may participate in this tt meeting :)12:05
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jeremiah_I'm hoping to participate. :-)12:19
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paulsherwood:)12:33
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Bjoern_test12:53
Bjoern_webchat seems to work ;- )12:53
paulsherwoodhi Bjoern12:54
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jeremiahBjoern_: o_O12:59
paulsherwoodGENIVI Tools Team Meeting Starts...12:59
klausbirkenHi all!12:59
paulsherwoodhi all12:59
* paulsherwood won't ask for atattendees formally...13:00
paulsherwood== Quick IRC meeting how-to ==13:00
paulsherwood- we can start informally for now, see how it goes13:00
paulsherwood- folks are welcome to chime in at any time13:00
paulsherwood- I'll paste topics from the agenda as we go13:00
paulsherwood- any immediate questions?13:00
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* paulsherwood takes silence as approval :)13:00
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paulsherwoodinitial agenda was at http://wiki.projects.genivi.org/index.php?title=TT/minutes/2015081013:01
paulsherwoodso first item is...13:01
paulsherwood== Wikis ==13:01
* paulsherwood wonders if joel is here13:01
Joel_Replogleyes, I am here13:01
paulsherwoodJoel_Replogle: welcome. please could you update us on what the 'plan' is for wikis?13:01
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Joel_ReplogleHi all - We currently have 2 active wikis... the media wiki at wiki.projects.genivi.org,13:02
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Joel_Replogleand the new oss-projects.atlassian.net wiki13:02
Joel_ReplogleBased on feedback, we are migrating from mediawiki to confluence13:03
Joel_ReplogleStatus of confluence:  We have set up with the Atlassian cloud tooling for both Confluence and JIRA13:03
paulsherwoodif others have managed to confirm they are happy with the new confluence approach, please could they please confirm?13:03
pavelkonopelkoyes, I can confirm13:04
paulsherwoodgreat, thank you13:04
CTtpollardI've not had hands on experience with confluence, but it looks neat13:04
* jeremiah is happy.13:04
pavelkonopelkowe only should agree on the high-level structure, before it grows too creative13:04
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paulsherwoodagreed. Joel_Replogle - do you have thoughts on how to agree/implement the structure?13:04
Joel_ReplogleWe've learned that the cloud-based version of Confluence/JIRA does not support having a *.genivi.org domain... this was viewed as a show-stopper.  So we are currently pursuing another transition, from cloud to server versions.13:04
paulsherwoodbut that transition should (just) be a db migration i believe?13:05
jeremiahIts been suggested that we look at other projects that we think organize their wiki well and try and copy.13:05
klausbirkenI am also happy with the new confluence approach, and I support Pavel's claim for a missing high-level structure.13:05
paulsherwoodjeremiah: food idea. any particular recommendations?13:05
Joel_ReplogleYes, the migration from cloud to server is a smooth process, since it's within their supported tooling.13:05
paulsherwoods/food/good/13:06
pavelkonopelkoAre there any features that will be lost/gain because of the translation?13:06
steve__Not tried any copy yet :( No time13:06
paulsherwoodpavelkonopelko: were/are you ok with the toplevel structure at wiki.projects.genivi.org? could that be the template?13:07
paulsherwoodsteve__: i know the feeling :)13:07
pavelkonopelkowell, could be better13:07
pavelkonopelkoI would have to have a second look to be more specific13:07
Joel_Reploglefeatures lost: no config/infrastructure for GENIVI... features gained: ability to have additional plugins, such as those supporting v3.x style wiki formatting.13:07
paulsherwoodin the interest of timekeeping in this meeting could i suggest that a subset of attendees take a separate discussion about wiki topelevel structure?13:08
pavelkonopelkoshould we organize a telco ? :-)13:08
Joel_Replogleit's a good topic, and I will organize a call13:08
Joel_Replogle:-)13:08
paulsherwoodif you must :)13:08
paulsherwoodinterested parties say aye...13:08
pavelkonopelkoI am in13:09
paulsherwood(note interest is likely to include doing some of the work itself)13:09
paulsherwoodjeremiah: ?13:09
Joel_Replogleindeed!  it is a wiki, after all :-)13:09
steve__aye13:09
jeremiahYes, I think we ought to all look at examples we like and submit suggestions13:09
jeremiahOtherwise we all become UX and UI information experts13:10
paulsherwoodok, steve__, pavelkonopelko, jeremiah, Joel_Replogle - can i leave you folks to move on this and report back next week?13:10
jeremiahhttp://www.tizen.org is actually a pretty good front page.13:10
Joel_Replogleyes, that sounds good.13:10
paulsherwoodok, unless any pressing further points on wikis, i propose to move on13:10
Joel_ReplogleOnce quick note...13:11
Joel_ReplogleEven though we are in transition mode, the transitions will be seamless (or close to it), so no need to delay using the new confluence/JIRA.13:11
paulsherwoodnoted. thank you13:11
paulsherwood== CIAT ==13:11
paulsherwoodAny reviews, comments, or shall we just press ahead?13:11
steve__define press ahead :)13:12
paulsherwoodwell... i elephants get eaten best one bite at a time13:13
paulsherwoodi can make simple proposals for some parts of CIAT13:13
paulsherwoodhopefully somee are non-controversial13:13
klausbirkenpaul: on the CIAT page, there are candidate solutions, which tool is the current favorite, Jenkins?13:13
paulsherwoodparticularly given that we can change them later13:13
paulsherwoodklausbirken: i'm unclear on that one...13:14
paulsherwoodbut let's start at the beginning...13:14
paulsherwoodcode review: anyone strongly object to gerrit?13:14
jeremiahCurrently we do code review on mailing lists.13:14
jeremiahMoving to Gerrit might need to have consensus13:14
jeremiahWhich is fine, but we'll have to speak to maintainers13:15
paulsherwood'speak' meaning email?13:15
jeremiahSure, or here or wherever13:15
* paulsherwood wonders if any maintainers are here and have an opinion13:15
CTtpollardI think gerrit is a better choice than mailing list patches, however it will require extra overhead and might create extra friction to newcomers13:16
paulsherwoodjeremiah: we could use gerrit to trigger ci, and still allow ml patches13:16
jeremiahSome companies currently will not submit patches publiclly but prefer to mail the maintainer directly and then new releases contain the pathces.13:16
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KlausUhlWe are using Gerrit internally. I would not want to trade it in for email based reviews. The only thing that I don't like about it is the fact that it is hard to find newly added review comments.13:16
paulsherwoodjeremiah: i'd like to discourage that practice :)13:16
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CTtpollardI don't think non public emailing is the correct way13:17
klausbirkenI am not a reviewer, anyway: gerrit is fine for me, I esp. like the concept that the automated tests of the CI build is just another review input.13:17
jeremiahThis is an anti-pattern I know but its hard to sometimes move people away from company policies.13:17
paulsherwoodKlausUhl: that may be config?13:17
KlausUhlMaybe.13:17
KlausUhlI am not the maintainer of that system :-)13:17
paulsherwoodjeremiah: any objection to us adopting gerrit while continuing to allow ml patches?13:17
KlausUhlMaybe it is just a matter of the presentation in the web frontent.13:17
jeremiahpaulsherwood: I like the idea of gerrit for CI triggers and mailing list patches, sounds good!13:17
paulsherwoodany other +1s?13:18
KlausUhl+1 from me13:18
paulsherwoodany -1?13:18
pavelkonopelkoI am ok as long as adopting is not mandatory13:18
pavelkonopelko...for everybody13:18
paulsherwoodack13:18
* paulsherwood takes this as a provisional decision, will attempt to make it so13:18
pavelkonopelko...just a tool available for those who want to use ti13:18
paulsherwoodnext...13:18
paulsherwoodgit mirroring13:18
steve__+113:19
paulsherwoodi'd like to propose baserock's lorry process... it works, and collects upstreams on an ongoing basis13:19
jeremiahDoes this refer to mirroring GENIVI git repos?13:19
paulsherwooddoes anyone know of other forss solutions?13:19
jeremiahOr are you referring to upstream repos?13:19
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paulsherwoodboth i believe13:20
CTtpollardI would want to mirror both13:20
CTtpollardthe problem with deprecated upstream repos has been a problem for meta-genivi-demo for example13:20
jeremiahSo you're proposing (for clarity) a single instance of all the source code GENIVI uses in one location via git mirrors13:20
jeremiah?13:20
* paulsherwood thinks that ci from the wild internet is rather upredictable13:20
paulsherwoodjeremiah: yes13:20
jeremiahThat sounds pretty awesome actually.13:21
jeremiahWould likely be a good resource and backup13:21
paulsherwoodnb... not not git.baserock.org, but a genivi/agl/automotive equivalent13:21
steve__also stepping stone for LRT binary distro requirement13:21
jeremiahOne wouldn't edit this mirror directly right? It would slurp upstream repos and put them in for CI to consume?13:21
paulsherwoodcorrect13:22
paulsherwood(on both points)13:22
jeremiahsteve__: Yes, this is a key enabler fro that.13:22
paulsherwooddo i i take it we have some +1s?13:22
jeremiahExpensive to maintain and host though13:22
jeremiahIs there a volunteer?13:22
CTtpollardpaulsherwood: are there any example of project troves / lorries for non baserock system purposes?13:22
paulsherwoodCTtpollard: i believe there are, but i don't have any to hand13:23
paulsherwoodjeremiah: you mean in terms of sponsoring hosting?13:23
jeremiah+113:23
jeremiahpaulsherwood: Yeah13:23
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paulsherwoodi believe we can find some... if folks agree this is a good approach13:24
jeremiahThen I'll just leave this here . . . +113:24
steve__hard to say. not looked at tech. What options are out there and what are the requirements?13:24
paulsherwoodi don't want to be accused of 'pushing' baserock, though... so if anyone is aware of viable alternatives please speak up13:24
pavelkonopelko+1 for upstream mirroring13:24
steve__+1 for mirroring13:25
gunnarxMeta: The speed of this meeting is hard to keep up with, tbh.13:25
paulsherwood:)13:25
gunnarxFirst question: I don't know what the "Lorry approach" contains.  You have not explained that Paul.13:25
paulsherwoodgunnarx: it's easier than the phonecalls :)13:25
gunnarxDo you then intend to change the yocto recipes that download tarballs to use git instead?13:25
pavelkonopelkolorry is a tool, a part of baserock suit13:25
paulsherwoodfair... lorry is just a program that can convert upstream repos from whateveer  vcs/tarball into git13:26
gunnarxI believe yocto has a mechanism for mirroring sources locally, has it been looked at and compared.13:26
paulsherwoodthere is an appliance (called trove) that does this on an ongoing basis13:26
gunnarxI don't know it personally, but assume that if the recipe calls for a tarball it will mirror a tarball?13:26
steve__yes yocto has simple mirror facility13:26
gunnarx(the yocto approach that is)13:26
paulsherwoodgunnarx: afaik yocto doesn't have a tool for collecting updates, nor anything for converting to git13:27
paulsherwoodbut i may be mistaken13:27
gunnarxpaulsherwood, my question 6 lines up...13:27
paulsherwoodi'm happy to put this on the list for discussion (and we could ask at yocto too for example)13:27
paulsherwoodyou mean 14:26 < gunnarx> I believe yocto has a mechanism for mirroring sources locally, has it been looked at and compared.13:27
gunnarxNo 10 lines up, or so.  I'm trying to understand what it means for the yocto recipes to convert all to git13:27
steve__an additional maintainer demand would be one aspect.13:28
gunnarxWhile I think the baserock approach is good, I don't think our first step should be to fork and modify multiple various yocto layers13:28
paulsherwoodok, this seems more controversial than the gerrit decision :)13:29
steve__When it breaks and its different from upstream13:29
pavelkonopelkopaulsherwood: is lorry / trove capable of retrieving the 'original' archives?13:29
gunnarxI'm guessing, without much data, that the yocto layers include tarball downloads, maybe a few odd hg and bzr etc.13:29
steve__not seen any -1s for the high level requirement. It's the implementation... :)13:29
paulsherwoodwe could take this separately - i don't want to hog the meeting on this one topic... any suggestions for best action point?13:29
pavelkonopelko... that is storing in git and returtning in original format?13:30
steve__yes gunnar, git, svn, tar balls etc.13:30
paulsherwoodok... i suggest this topic continues at a more leisurely pace after the meeting (over coming days)13:30
paulsherwoodunless anyone has further urgent points, i believe other aspects of CIAT also need discussion13:31
gunnarxIt's not about being controversial, I just feel you are moving fast and uncertain if things are being thought through.  I'm all for good solutions13:31
paulsherwood(but note that i've been previously been guided that if i just 'get it done' maybe folks would be happy to adopt)13:31
paulsherwoodgunnarx: i believe that there are a reasonable number of interested stakeholders that would like to see *something* for CIAT operational quickly...13:32
paulsherwoodeven if it's only a strawman in parts13:32
* paulsherwood personally would like to get something lashed together by end of august, early sept at the latest, as a startpoint13:33
gunnarxpaulsherwood, yeah, please don't strawman me.  As I said, I'm not opposed to any good solutions, and certainly not putting them in place quickly either.13:33
gunnarxBut to be honest the Wiki migration is still in flux, and no one seemed to bring it down to earth on this discussion, afaict13:34
pavelkonopelkothat's why we agreed to continue in a conf call :-)13:35
steve__Search on CIAT on open wiki only brings up hits in TT minutes. Is that because it is on new confluence?13:35
paulsherwoodgunnarx: i'm unclear on next step based on what you're saying (for CIAT... i thought we'd done wiki already)13:35
klausbirkensteve_: https://genivi-oss.atlassian.net/wiki/display/TOOL/CIAT13:35
* paulsherwood proposes to move on to next agenda item, and clear up CIAT via the mailing list13:36
gunnarxOK, but now the meeting is here  :)  Just going on record that I'd like to understand what mirroring all sources in git (something I like in theory) means for the yocto recipes that may fetch sources from elsewhere (forking and maintaining lots of layers I don't like so much)  Sorry for repetition.13:36
paulsherwoodgunnarx: noted13:37
paulsherwoodany objections to moving forward?13:37
gunnarxok by me13:37
paulsherwoodtvm13:37
paulsherwood== CommonAPI ==13:37
steve__yocto would take normally take different approach. mirror as is and use pre-mirror13:37
steve__onwards.13:37
paulsherwoodklausbirken: please could you lead this topic... i need to rest my typing a bit :)13:38
klausbirkenOk - so this is about test generation…13:38
klausbirkenI am looking into test generation from Franca interfaces. I created a Trello card ("doing") for this and a new page in our cool new confluence: https://genivi-oss.atlassian.net/wiki/display/TOOL/Generating+Tests+with+Franca13:38
klausbirkenUp to now, I collected some ideas and aspects for this topic, and looked a little deeper in what could be done with Franca and fMBT (which is quite cool).13:38
klausbirkenYou are invited to add stuff to the page... maybe someone has used fMBT before or similar tools before and can give input13:39
klausbirkenOr put a new section "requirements" on that page.13:39
paulsherwoodklausbirken: this looks like a great start, thank you!13:39
klausbirkenI will try to make it more concrete, provide some examples until next week.13:40
paulsherwoodare others interested in working with klausbirken on this? klausbirken - are there things you awould like help with?13:41
klausbirkenInput on test frameworks you are using would be useful…13:41
KlausUhlI would be interested to contribute to this. I am just not sure how much time I will be able to "donate".13:42
paulsherwoodfor CIAT? or input from othrs on their preferred test frameworks?13:42
* paulsherwood thinks CIAT needs to support multiple frameworks13:42
KlausUhlFor generating tests with Franca13:42
klausbirkenI am not sure, fMBT for example is more than a test framework, it can generate test sequences from independent test steps13:43
klausbirkenthere might be similar tools, which we should look into a little deeper13:43
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paulsherwoodok. klausbirken i think it would be worth you emailing to the list specifically on this, better than it being lost in the minutes of this meeting ;)13:44
gunnarxThe discussion about frameworks is a never ending story.  The fact is that you need "one system" that executes tests that are written in multiple frameworks.  It's not rocket science really and typically lands the solution in some shell scripts as glue, CIAT executes.13:44
gunnarxJust do it already :)13:44
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paulsherwoodgunnarx: yup13:44
paulsherwoodok any more on CommonAPI today?13:45
steve__+1=>gunnar on executor13:45
gunnarxYes13:45
klausbirkennot from my side13:45
paulsherwood== AMM ==13:45
klausbirkengunnarx: yes, this is the CIAT aspect. I am looking into generation of tests from interfaces, not execution of tests.13:45
gunnarxIf I may take the cue to comment quickly on franca_install_automation.  CommonAPI install is broken still13:45
klausbirkenRegarding AMM: I didn't prepare the agenda proposal for Franca yet, still todo.13:46
paulsherwoodcan someone volunteer to check that TT sessions are properly shepherded through GENIVI process?13:46
gunnarxWait, which topic are we on?13:46
paulsherwoodi moved onto AMM, gunnarx. but i note your comment about CommonAPI13:46
gunnarxIt was just introduction to a request for help, but if you want to move on...13:47
klausbirkenAMM first, CommonAPI afterwards?13:47
paulsherwoodyes please13:47
gunnarxok, go on13:47
* paulsherwood was a bit hasty in moving on, and apologises13:47
pavelkonopelkore shepherding, it's most easily done in the PMO13:48
paulsherwoodpavelkonopelko: do i take that as your raising your hand? :)13:48
pavelkonopelko...whomever joins on a regular basis PMO calls does13:48
pavelkonopelko... raise their hands13:49
klausbirkenpaulsherwood: TT "shepherd" - maybe we can sync with philrobn right now, he is online13:49
paulsherwoodpavelkonopelko: i do, but i keep having to drop off it13:49
paulsherwoodklausbirken: good idea, but i believe the process is not public?13:49
klausbirkenpaulsherwood: I see, you're right.13:49
* paulsherwood can maybe voluntell someone, as walt called it, if all else fails :)13:50
paulsherwoodok if no takers, i'll sort it separately13:50
paulsherwoodany more points on AMM?13:51
paulsherwood513:51
paulsherwood413:51
paulsherwood313:51
paulsherwood213:51
gunnarxNo the content of the GENIVI Members meeting is not planned in public.  The content of conferences that GENIVI host for the entire industry is of course published.13:51
gunnarxTypical process is to add sessions to the Wiki page containing all proposed sessions, P Robin schedules them if they are ready to be scheduled13:51
gunnarxSo, that's the needed shepherding right now I think?  :)13:51
paulsherwoodyes. who will do it, though. me i guess :)13:52
gunnarxTeam lead is a good guess :)13:52
paulsherwoodany further comments on AMM before we return to CommonAPI13:52
gunnarxBut could be by the topic owner/speaker of course.13:52
gunnarxI'm done13:52
* paulsherwood notes that if gunnarx had explained how much work this actually involves, he might not have been so quick to volunteer :_)13:52
paulsherwood== CommonAPI redux ==13:53
paulsherwoodgunnarx: have you raised a bug?13:53
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gunnarxlet me restart13:53
paulsherwood(and incidentally should be be doing that using Jira now?)13:53
gunnarxNow you're jumping to another topic.13:53
paulsherwoodsorry13:54
paulsherwoodgunnarx: please go ahead13:54
gunnarxOK, I saw a cue to comment on franca_install_automation13:54
gunnarxI want to inform:  It does not yet install commonAPI but I'd like it to.  Maybe someone can help out.13:55
gunnarxI think the problem right now is C API depends on CDT Tools.   I may have been too eager to add all CDT to the install, because it seemed useful ,but it landed me in dependency hell13:55
gunnarxWhich is maybe normal in Eclipse ecosystem? :)13:55
klausbirkengunnarx: dependency hell is not only in the Eclipse space :-)13:56
gunnarxThe problem is, the automation does not use Eclipse's built in dependency meta data13:56
gunnarxSo I must explicitly install every needed package, in the right order..  So far it's been OK, but now I feel like there are circular dependencies.13:56
klausbirkenI see - I created an installation locally I while ago - I can check.13:56
klausbirkenIs there a branch with your current state?13:57
gunnarxAlso difficult to find out where exactly some required packages actually have their home.13:57
gunnarxYes, I believe I pushed cpp_common_api branch13:57
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klausbirkenOk - I'll check.13:57
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gunnarxOK, my request for help has been noted, and status of the project informed.  I'm hopeful it's solveable.13:58
klausbirkenLast question: CommonAPI 3.1.3?13:58
gunnarxYes, I believe that's the one I tried.  I could come back in a minute with more info, or we could actually take it outside of the meeting.13:59
paulsherwoodoutside the meetign please. ok, if that completed the CommonAPI redux... shall we move to AOB?13:59
gunnarxyes, ok13:59
klausbirkenFine for me13:59
paulsherwood== AOB ==13:59
steve__Short notice, but there will be an open LTSI workshop at LinuxCon14:00
steve__http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/ltsi-dev/2015-August/005529.html14:00
paulsherwoodgreat, tvm.14:00
paulsherwoodany other AOB from folks?14:00
gunnarxZzzz :)14:00
jeremiahklausbirken: I'll come back to you about Franca testing, I'd like to know more and see if the tests I'm writing ought to be written with Franca.14:00
gunnarxjust kidding14:00
steve__=) JTA test and longer term support appear to be on agenda14:00
klausbirkenjeremiah: Fine.14:01
* paulsherwood notes that he will email the list seeking people's feedback abou whether the irc format for this meeting has any future :)14:01
pavelkonopelkosteve__: how about LinuxCon Europe in October?14:01
gunnarxpaulsherwood, to answer, no bugs to go bugzilla14:01
steve__Don't know. Ask them on LTSI list :)14:01
paulsherwoodgunnarx: ok, thanks. Joel_Replogle - what is the purpose of having the new public JIRA, please?14:01
gunnarxfor now.   I'm happy to jump to new infrastructure, including Wiki, when we know what we're doing.  I don't think the jump is ready.14:01
jeremiahWell, Tim Bird is the chair of ELCE I believe and is on LTSI so . . .14:02
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* paulsherwood notices the time, and proposes to bring the meeting to a close. folks would be welcome to continue the conversation here, of course14:02
steve__yes and I can imagine many of the usual suspects will be at ELC14:02
gunnarxAnd that goes for the Wiki too but I guess a meeting is planned to fill the spaces in an ordered manner.14:03
* klausbirken thinks that this kind of IRC meeting is much more exhaustive than conf calls14:03
paulsherwoodexhaustive, or exhausting? :)14:03
* gunnarx agrees14:03
klausbirkenexhausting - sorry14:03
Joel_ReplogleNew JIRA has tight integration with Confluence.14:03
gunnarxoops I misread.  I'd say both.14:03
paulsherwoodok... well let's discuss it on the ml after folks have a chance to get their breath back :)14:04
gunnarxJoel_Replogle, sure I agree. I think the new infra can be great.  I just want to avoid confusion in between.14:04
gunnarxAnd don't stop contributing to the MediaWiki!  Content is better than no content :)14:04
paulsherwoodanyone object to me closing the 'official' meeting now?14:04
steve__nope14:04
gunnarxno14:04
pavelkonopelkoNOP14:04
Joel_ReplogleGunnar - complete agreement!14:04
klausbirkenYes both. I feel like the guy running behind a car - exhausted. :-)14:04
* paulsherwood thinks this was a very useful discussion, thanks to all14:05
paulsherwood== Tools Team Meeting ends ==14:05
* paulsherwood staggers to the bar14:05
jeremiahw00t14:05
steve__What's that your buying the drinks at the bar? Cool.14:06
paulsherwoodit's a virtual irc bar... what are you having, steve__ ? :)14:06
* klausbirken thinks that I also feel like running in front of the car - tired :-)14:06
steve__I think i'll wait for you to buy them at the real bar in Seoul!14:06
paulsherwoodyup... irc can be quite intense14:07
paulsherwoodsteve__: absolutely14:07
steve__I'm glad that was on the record.14:07
klausbirkenpaulsherwood: But you do not have to prepare minutes, don't you? That's a benefit.14:07
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paulsherwoodklausbirken: yes, true. and the record is more complete this way. no possibility for someone to misrepresent or forget to minute something14:11
* rjek vastly thoroughly prefers IRC meetings to conference calls, and finds them marginally better than face-to-face, once you're used to them.14:12
rjekYou can't mishear, you can't misremember.14:13
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rjekYou can still misinterpret, but all forms of communication have that.14:13
rjekUnless we all want to learn Lojban?14:13
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klausbirkenI looked into Lojban in the 90s, is there still an active community?14:14
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rjekklausbirken: I think there are a handful of people who speak it fluently, more who can read.14:14
rjekI don't think it's as popular as Esperanto or Klingon for modern constructed languages, though.14:14
rjekAnd I don't think Klingon would be a good fit.14:14
klausbirkenKlingon not, indeed. translate.google.com doesn't offer Lojban :-(14:15
rjekI think there's a Lojban -> English translater, but not the other way around: English is too imprecise :)14:16
klausbirkenrjek: You mentioned "IRC is marginally better than f2f" above - most people I know would object to this…14:16
rjekMost people I know object to me.14:17
klausbirkenrjek: :-) … here is a podcast episode which discusses how speech recognition could be used to create a transcript of our whole life - it seems this would at least create meeting minutes for F2F meetings automatically (http://reviewthefuture.com/?p=489)14:19
rjekklausbirken: I wonder if modern speech recognition is good enough?14:20
rjekAll the ones I've used yeild amusing typos14:20
rjekSometimes slanderous!14:20
klausbirkenrjek: no not yet. Too context-insensitive. Not good enough for a full-text grep in our social interactions. But this would be creepy anyway.14:20
rjekThe BBC have a very fancy research tool based on subtitles/closed captions and speech recognition where that is not available that lets you search recent TV programmes by what was said.14:21
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rjek(And radio programmes)14:21
klausbirkenrjek: Nice.14:22
gunnarxPushed current state again.  Hopefully remember to clean up the history when it's time to merge this.14:22
rjekThey have millions of hours of training corpus though: 95% of the BBC's output must have subtitles, so they already have what was said as both plain text and as a waveform, which lets them train a model for catching the last 5% and the radio programmes.14:23
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klausbirkengunnarx: I'll check this tonight. AFAIK, the dependency CommonAPI=>CDT is not really needed (but mandatory in the current CommonAPI version, but when generating C++ code it might be useful to have CDT installed anyway)14:23
gunnarxGot disconnected.  Hmm, looking at the logs I seem to have missed a bunch of stuff.14:24
gunnarxDid you see my line "I just pushed the branch in broken state" directly after the meeting?14:24
gunnarxI suppose not...14:24
klausbirkenrjek: That's a good starting point, indeed. They are probably using something like NuPIC to do the learning...14:24
klausbirkengunnarx: No, I didn't see that.14:24
klausbirkengunnarx: Either the timeline progress was too fast or it got lost.14:25
gunnarxpaulsherwood, I like that the logs are updated quickly.  Apparently I've been typing into empty space the last 10 minutes.  :-/14:25
gunnarxOK, in the meantime I fixed it and it looks like it installs OK, have not tested the result though.14:26
gunnarxI have pushed the branch again.  It's not cleaned up but just to have it in some kind of state14:26
gunnarxPlease confirm that I'm alive.  My connection is total crap it seems.14:30
jonathanmawgunnarx: confirmed speaking, will need a biologist to confirm alive.14:31
paulsherwoodlol14:31
gunnarxWatched Shaun of the dead yesterday evening.  So you never know.14:32
gunnarx:)14:32
klausbirkenpaulsherwood: Is there a robots.txt configuration for the logs of this IRC group? I cannot find items from the logs in my web search results…14:48
paulsherwoodgood question...14:48
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paulsherwoodklausbirken: https://irclogs.baserock.org/%23baserock.2015-08-10.log.html#t2015-08-10T14:48:3314:58
paulsherwoodso maybe it's just taking time for google to find things14:58
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klausbirkenpaulsherwood: OK, thanks. It seems Google lags behind a several days, maybe their server farms are not huge enough :-)15:06
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paulsherwoodklausbirken: maybe they are trying to keep the information from you? iiuc everyone's googlesphere is different15:10
paulsherwood:)15:10
klausbirkenpaulsherwood: Maybe…15:11
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KlausUhl//part15:45
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paulsherwoodpavelkonopelko: thanks for the feedback on the irc experiment, i think your suggestions are sensible16:04
scrumbquit16:09
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* paulsherwood refuses to quit :)16:10
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jlrmagnusMorning16:19
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paulsherwoodhi :)16:25
CTtpollardhas anyone built and deployed the genivo demo for renesas porter recently?16:28
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paulsherwoodi'm guessing not16:39
paulsherwoodor at least, not on this channel today :)16:39
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