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jeremiah | OHAI! | 07:48 |
---|---|---|
jonathanmaw | morning jeremiah | 07:48 |
jeremiah | Hi Jonathan! | 07:49 |
jeremiah | Have you seen your colleague Mr. Pollard? | 07:49 |
jeremiah | I don't see him here on IRC> | 07:49 |
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jeremiah | I merely wanted to tell him to add his name to the MAINTAINERs file here: http://git.projects.genivi.org/?p=meta-genivi-demo.git;a=blob;f=MAINTAINERS;h=bd23ae9d7cb7f3fd0924b14df79a56535efc0c81;hb=HEAD | 07:50 |
jeremiah | KlausUhl: Wie gehts! | 07:51 |
KlausUhl | jeremiah: Gut, danke. Und selbst? | 07:56 |
jeremiah | Gut vielen danke. | 08:05 |
jeremiah | And there, we've exhausted my German. :-) | 08:05 |
KlausUhl | :-) | 08:05 |
jeremiah | Well, there's always "Bitte ein Bitte" | 08:06 |
KlausUhl | You mean "Bitte ein Bit", do you? | 08:06 |
jonathanmaw | jeremiah: he's here as CTtpollard, though he's not in the office, yet, so that's probably just his bouncer. | 08:06 |
jeremiah | Perhaps I do. | 08:06 |
jeremiah | jonathanmaw: Thanks! | 08:06 |
KlausUhl | If you are talking about beer then you do :-) | 08:07 |
jeremiah | heh | 08:07 |
jeremiah | I love to talk about beer in Germany. :-) | 08:07 |
jeremiah | Drink it too | 08:07 |
KlausUhl | I usually prefer wine and whisky but beer is fine, too. | 08:08 |
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FelixH | mh, wine ? | 09:20 |
FelixH | =) | 09:20 |
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paulsherwood | GENIVI Tools Team meeting will start in just over one hour | 11:50 |
paulsherwood | (this will be our first attempt to conduct this meeting on irc only) | 11:51 |
paulsherwood | draft agenda is at http://wiki.projects.genivi.org/index.php/TT/minutes/20150810 | 11:51 |
paulsherwood | please feel free to suggest additional items there or here :) | 11:51 |
jeremiah | paulsherwood: Should we have an 'attendees' section? | 11:53 |
paulsherwood | nah :) | 11:53 |
jeremiah | k | 11:53 |
jeremiah | Should we have a link to the logs? | 11:53 |
paulsherwood | i discussed this with colleagues earlier.. formalising attendees might discourage drive-by contributions | 11:53 |
jeremiah | Should we have a custom ponicon as an avatar? | 11:53 |
jeremiah | paulsherwood: Fair enough. | 11:54 |
paulsherwood | what is a ponicon? :) | 11:54 |
jeremiah | LMGTFY | 11:54 |
jeremiah | Ooops. | 11:54 |
jeremiah | I meant ponycorn | 11:54 |
jeremiah | heh | 11:54 |
jeremiah | Sometimes spelled ponicorn | 11:55 |
paulsherwood | in other channels i have told folks off for 'LMGTFY' :) | 11:55 |
jeremiah | heh | 11:55 |
paulsherwood | we can't all know all the tricks all the time :-) | 11:55 |
jeremiah | I thought this was IRC, we're all wizards. | 11:56 |
paulsherwood | i've added link to logs (if i understood your suggestion correctly) | 11:56 |
jeremiah | Yep, thanks | 11:56 |
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* paulsherwood heads oto skype to see if joel is all hooked up | 11:57 | |
paulsherwood | he appears to be confident :) | 11:59 |
paulsherwood | jeremiah: in the meantime, did you have any thoughts on the CIAT doc that was sent to the list? | 12:05 |
* paulsherwood is assuming that jeremiah may participate in this tt meeting :) | 12:05 | |
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jeremiah_ | I'm hoping to participate. :-) | 12:19 |
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paulsherwood | :) | 12:33 |
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Bjoern_ | test | 12:53 |
Bjoern_ | webchat seems to work ;- ) | 12:53 |
paulsherwood | hi Bjoern | 12:54 |
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jeremiah | Bjoern_: o_O | 12:59 |
paulsherwood | GENIVI Tools Team Meeting Starts... | 12:59 |
klausbirken | Hi all! | 12:59 |
paulsherwood | hi all | 12:59 |
* paulsherwood won't ask for atattendees formally... | 13:00 | |
paulsherwood | == Quick IRC meeting how-to == | 13:00 |
paulsherwood | - we can start informally for now, see how it goes | 13:00 |
paulsherwood | - folks are welcome to chime in at any time | 13:00 |
paulsherwood | - I'll paste topics from the agenda as we go | 13:00 |
paulsherwood | - any immediate questions? | 13:00 |
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* paulsherwood takes silence as approval :) | 13:00 | |
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paulsherwood | initial agenda was at http://wiki.projects.genivi.org/index.php?title=TT/minutes/20150810 | 13:01 |
paulsherwood | so first item is... | 13:01 |
paulsherwood | == Wikis == | 13:01 |
* paulsherwood wonders if joel is here | 13:01 | |
Joel_Replogle | yes, I am here | 13:01 |
paulsherwood | Joel_Replogle: welcome. please could you update us on what the 'plan' is for wikis? | 13:01 |
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Joel_Replogle | Hi all - We currently have 2 active wikis... the media wiki at wiki.projects.genivi.org, | 13:02 |
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Joel_Replogle | and the new oss-projects.atlassian.net wiki | 13:02 |
Joel_Replogle | Based on feedback, we are migrating from mediawiki to confluence | 13:03 |
Joel_Replogle | Status of confluence: We have set up with the Atlassian cloud tooling for both Confluence and JIRA | 13:03 |
paulsherwood | if others have managed to confirm they are happy with the new confluence approach, please could they please confirm? | 13:03 |
pavelkonopelko | yes, I can confirm | 13:04 |
paulsherwood | great, thank you | 13:04 |
CTtpollard | I've not had hands on experience with confluence, but it looks neat | 13:04 |
* jeremiah is happy. | 13:04 | |
pavelkonopelko | we only should agree on the high-level structure, before it grows too creative | 13:04 |
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paulsherwood | agreed. Joel_Replogle - do you have thoughts on how to agree/implement the structure? | 13:04 |
Joel_Replogle | We've learned that the cloud-based version of Confluence/JIRA does not support having a *.genivi.org domain... this was viewed as a show-stopper. So we are currently pursuing another transition, from cloud to server versions. | 13:04 |
paulsherwood | but that transition should (just) be a db migration i believe? | 13:05 |
jeremiah | Its been suggested that we look at other projects that we think organize their wiki well and try and copy. | 13:05 |
klausbirken | I am also happy with the new confluence approach, and I support Pavel's claim for a missing high-level structure. | 13:05 |
paulsherwood | jeremiah: food idea. any particular recommendations? | 13:05 |
Joel_Replogle | Yes, the migration from cloud to server is a smooth process, since it's within their supported tooling. | 13:05 |
paulsherwood | s/food/good/ | 13:06 |
pavelkonopelko | Are there any features that will be lost/gain because of the translation? | 13:06 |
steve__ | Not tried any copy yet :( No time | 13:06 |
paulsherwood | pavelkonopelko: were/are you ok with the toplevel structure at wiki.projects.genivi.org? could that be the template? | 13:07 |
paulsherwood | steve__: i know the feeling :) | 13:07 |
pavelkonopelko | well, could be better | 13:07 |
pavelkonopelko | I would have to have a second look to be more specific | 13:07 |
Joel_Replogle | features lost: no config/infrastructure for GENIVI... features gained: ability to have additional plugins, such as those supporting v3.x style wiki formatting. | 13:07 |
paulsherwood | in the interest of timekeeping in this meeting could i suggest that a subset of attendees take a separate discussion about wiki topelevel structure? | 13:08 |
pavelkonopelko | should we organize a telco ? :-) | 13:08 |
Joel_Replogle | it's a good topic, and I will organize a call | 13:08 |
Joel_Replogle | :-) | 13:08 |
paulsherwood | if you must :) | 13:08 |
paulsherwood | interested parties say aye... | 13:08 |
pavelkonopelko | I am in | 13:09 |
paulsherwood | (note interest is likely to include doing some of the work itself) | 13:09 |
paulsherwood | jeremiah: ? | 13:09 |
Joel_Replogle | indeed! it is a wiki, after all :-) | 13:09 |
steve__ | aye | 13:09 |
jeremiah | Yes, I think we ought to all look at examples we like and submit suggestions | 13:09 |
jeremiah | Otherwise we all become UX and UI information experts | 13:10 |
paulsherwood | ok, steve__, pavelkonopelko, jeremiah, Joel_Replogle - can i leave you folks to move on this and report back next week? | 13:10 |
jeremiah | http://www.tizen.org is actually a pretty good front page. | 13:10 |
Joel_Replogle | yes, that sounds good. | 13:10 |
paulsherwood | ok, unless any pressing further points on wikis, i propose to move on | 13:10 |
Joel_Replogle | Once quick note... | 13:11 |
Joel_Replogle | Even though we are in transition mode, the transitions will be seamless (or close to it), so no need to delay using the new confluence/JIRA. | 13:11 |
paulsherwood | noted. thank you | 13:11 |
paulsherwood | == CIAT == | 13:11 |
paulsherwood | Any reviews, comments, or shall we just press ahead? | 13:11 |
steve__ | define press ahead :) | 13:12 |
paulsherwood | well... i elephants get eaten best one bite at a time | 13:13 |
paulsherwood | i can make simple proposals for some parts of CIAT | 13:13 |
paulsherwood | hopefully somee are non-controversial | 13:13 |
klausbirken | paul: on the CIAT page, there are candidate solutions, which tool is the current favorite, Jenkins? | 13:13 |
paulsherwood | particularly given that we can change them later | 13:13 |
paulsherwood | klausbirken: i'm unclear on that one... | 13:14 |
paulsherwood | but let's start at the beginning... | 13:14 |
paulsherwood | code review: anyone strongly object to gerrit? | 13:14 |
jeremiah | Currently we do code review on mailing lists. | 13:14 |
jeremiah | Moving to Gerrit might need to have consensus | 13:14 |
jeremiah | Which is fine, but we'll have to speak to maintainers | 13:15 |
paulsherwood | 'speak' meaning email? | 13:15 |
jeremiah | Sure, or here or wherever | 13:15 |
* paulsherwood wonders if any maintainers are here and have an opinion | 13:15 | |
CTtpollard | I think gerrit is a better choice than mailing list patches, however it will require extra overhead and might create extra friction to newcomers | 13:16 |
paulsherwood | jeremiah: we could use gerrit to trigger ci, and still allow ml patches | 13:16 |
jeremiah | Some companies currently will not submit patches publiclly but prefer to mail the maintainer directly and then new releases contain the pathces. | 13:16 |
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KlausUhl | We are using Gerrit internally. I would not want to trade it in for email based reviews. The only thing that I don't like about it is the fact that it is hard to find newly added review comments. | 13:16 |
paulsherwood | jeremiah: i'd like to discourage that practice :) | 13:16 |
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CTtpollard | I don't think non public emailing is the correct way | 13:17 |
klausbirken | I am not a reviewer, anyway: gerrit is fine for me, I esp. like the concept that the automated tests of the CI build is just another review input. | 13:17 |
jeremiah | This is an anti-pattern I know but its hard to sometimes move people away from company policies. | 13:17 |
paulsherwood | KlausUhl: that may be config? | 13:17 |
KlausUhl | Maybe. | 13:17 |
KlausUhl | I am not the maintainer of that system :-) | 13:17 |
paulsherwood | jeremiah: any objection to us adopting gerrit while continuing to allow ml patches? | 13:17 |
KlausUhl | Maybe it is just a matter of the presentation in the web frontent. | 13:17 |
jeremiah | paulsherwood: I like the idea of gerrit for CI triggers and mailing list patches, sounds good! | 13:17 |
paulsherwood | any other +1s? | 13:18 |
KlausUhl | +1 from me | 13:18 |
paulsherwood | any -1? | 13:18 |
pavelkonopelko | I am ok as long as adopting is not mandatory | 13:18 |
pavelkonopelko | ...for everybody | 13:18 |
paulsherwood | ack | 13:18 |
* paulsherwood takes this as a provisional decision, will attempt to make it so | 13:18 | |
pavelkonopelko | ...just a tool available for those who want to use ti | 13:18 |
paulsherwood | next... | 13:18 |
paulsherwood | git mirroring | 13:18 |
steve__ | +1 | 13:19 |
paulsherwood | i'd like to propose baserock's lorry process... it works, and collects upstreams on an ongoing basis | 13:19 |
jeremiah | Does this refer to mirroring GENIVI git repos? | 13:19 |
paulsherwood | does anyone know of other forss solutions? | 13:19 |
jeremiah | Or are you referring to upstream repos? | 13:19 |
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paulsherwood | both i believe | 13:20 |
CTtpollard | I would want to mirror both | 13:20 |
CTtpollard | the problem with deprecated upstream repos has been a problem for meta-genivi-demo for example | 13:20 |
jeremiah | So you're proposing (for clarity) a single instance of all the source code GENIVI uses in one location via git mirrors | 13:20 |
jeremiah | ? | 13:20 |
* paulsherwood thinks that ci from the wild internet is rather upredictable | 13:20 | |
paulsherwood | jeremiah: yes | 13:20 |
jeremiah | That sounds pretty awesome actually. | 13:21 |
jeremiah | Would likely be a good resource and backup | 13:21 |
paulsherwood | nb... not not git.baserock.org, but a genivi/agl/automotive equivalent | 13:21 |
steve__ | also stepping stone for LRT binary distro requirement | 13:21 |
jeremiah | One wouldn't edit this mirror directly right? It would slurp upstream repos and put them in for CI to consume? | 13:21 |
paulsherwood | correct | 13:22 |
paulsherwood | (on both points) | 13:22 |
jeremiah | steve__: Yes, this is a key enabler fro that. | 13:22 |
paulsherwood | do i i take it we have some +1s? | 13:22 |
jeremiah | Expensive to maintain and host though | 13:22 |
jeremiah | Is there a volunteer? | 13:22 |
CTtpollard | paulsherwood: are there any example of project troves / lorries for non baserock system purposes? | 13:22 |
paulsherwood | CTtpollard: i believe there are, but i don't have any to hand | 13:23 |
paulsherwood | jeremiah: you mean in terms of sponsoring hosting? | 13:23 |
jeremiah | +1 | 13:23 |
jeremiah | paulsherwood: Yeah | 13:23 |
*** gan is now known as gunnarx | 13:23 | |
paulsherwood | i believe we can find some... if folks agree this is a good approach | 13:24 |
jeremiah | Then I'll just leave this here . . . +1 | 13:24 |
steve__ | hard to say. not looked at tech. What options are out there and what are the requirements? | 13:24 |
paulsherwood | i don't want to be accused of 'pushing' baserock, though... so if anyone is aware of viable alternatives please speak up | 13:24 |
pavelkonopelko | +1 for upstream mirroring | 13:24 |
steve__ | +1 for mirroring | 13:25 |
gunnarx | Meta: The speed of this meeting is hard to keep up with, tbh. | 13:25 |
paulsherwood | :) | 13:25 |
gunnarx | First question: I don't know what the "Lorry approach" contains. You have not explained that Paul. | 13:25 |
paulsherwood | gunnarx: it's easier than the phonecalls :) | 13:25 |
gunnarx | Do you then intend to change the yocto recipes that download tarballs to use git instead? | 13:25 |
pavelkonopelko | lorry is a tool, a part of baserock suit | 13:25 |
paulsherwood | fair... lorry is just a program that can convert upstream repos from whateveer vcs/tarball into git | 13:26 |
gunnarx | I believe yocto has a mechanism for mirroring sources locally, has it been looked at and compared. | 13:26 |
paulsherwood | there is an appliance (called trove) that does this on an ongoing basis | 13:26 |
gunnarx | I don't know it personally, but assume that if the recipe calls for a tarball it will mirror a tarball? | 13:26 |
steve__ | yes yocto has simple mirror facility | 13:26 |
gunnarx | (the yocto approach that is) | 13:26 |
paulsherwood | gunnarx: afaik yocto doesn't have a tool for collecting updates, nor anything for converting to git | 13:27 |
paulsherwood | but i may be mistaken | 13:27 |
gunnarx | paulsherwood, my question 6 lines up... | 13:27 |
paulsherwood | i'm happy to put this on the list for discussion (and we could ask at yocto too for example) | 13:27 |
paulsherwood | you mean 14:26 < gunnarx> I believe yocto has a mechanism for mirroring sources locally, has it been looked at and compared. | 13:27 |
gunnarx | No 10 lines up, or so. I'm trying to understand what it means for the yocto recipes to convert all to git | 13:27 |
steve__ | an additional maintainer demand would be one aspect. | 13:28 |
gunnarx | While I think the baserock approach is good, I don't think our first step should be to fork and modify multiple various yocto layers | 13:28 |
paulsherwood | ok, this seems more controversial than the gerrit decision :) | 13:29 |
steve__ | When it breaks and its different from upstream | 13:29 |
pavelkonopelko | paulsherwood: is lorry / trove capable of retrieving the 'original' archives? | 13:29 |
gunnarx | I'm guessing, without much data, that the yocto layers include tarball downloads, maybe a few odd hg and bzr etc. | 13:29 |
steve__ | not seen any -1s for the high level requirement. It's the implementation... :) | 13:29 |
paulsherwood | we could take this separately - i don't want to hog the meeting on this one topic... any suggestions for best action point? | 13:29 |
pavelkonopelko | ... that is storing in git and returtning in original format? | 13:30 |
steve__ | yes gunnar, git, svn, tar balls etc. | 13:30 |
paulsherwood | ok... i suggest this topic continues at a more leisurely pace after the meeting (over coming days) | 13:30 |
paulsherwood | unless anyone has further urgent points, i believe other aspects of CIAT also need discussion | 13:31 |
gunnarx | It's not about being controversial, I just feel you are moving fast and uncertain if things are being thought through. I'm all for good solutions | 13:31 |
paulsherwood | (but note that i've been previously been guided that if i just 'get it done' maybe folks would be happy to adopt) | 13:31 |
paulsherwood | gunnarx: i believe that there are a reasonable number of interested stakeholders that would like to see *something* for CIAT operational quickly... | 13:32 |
paulsherwood | even if it's only a strawman in parts | 13:32 |
* paulsherwood personally would like to get something lashed together by end of august, early sept at the latest, as a startpoint | 13:33 | |
gunnarx | paulsherwood, yeah, please don't strawman me. As I said, I'm not opposed to any good solutions, and certainly not putting them in place quickly either. | 13:33 |
gunnarx | But to be honest the Wiki migration is still in flux, and no one seemed to bring it down to earth on this discussion, afaict | 13:34 |
pavelkonopelko | that's why we agreed to continue in a conf call :-) | 13:35 |
steve__ | Search on CIAT on open wiki only brings up hits in TT minutes. Is that because it is on new confluence? | 13:35 |
paulsherwood | gunnarx: i'm unclear on next step based on what you're saying (for CIAT... i thought we'd done wiki already) | 13:35 |
klausbirken | steve_: https://genivi-oss.atlassian.net/wiki/display/TOOL/CIAT | 13:35 |
* paulsherwood proposes to move on to next agenda item, and clear up CIAT via the mailing list | 13:36 | |
gunnarx | OK, but now the meeting is here :) Just going on record that I'd like to understand what mirroring all sources in git (something I like in theory) means for the yocto recipes that may fetch sources from elsewhere (forking and maintaining lots of layers I don't like so much) Sorry for repetition. | 13:36 |
paulsherwood | gunnarx: noted | 13:37 |
paulsherwood | any objections to moving forward? | 13:37 |
gunnarx | ok by me | 13:37 |
paulsherwood | tvm | 13:37 |
paulsherwood | == CommonAPI == | 13:37 |
steve__ | yocto would take normally take different approach. mirror as is and use pre-mirror | 13:37 |
steve__ | onwards. | 13:37 |
paulsherwood | klausbirken: please could you lead this topic... i need to rest my typing a bit :) | 13:38 |
klausbirken | Ok - so this is about test generation… | 13:38 |
klausbirken | I am looking into test generation from Franca interfaces. I created a Trello card ("doing") for this and a new page in our cool new confluence: https://genivi-oss.atlassian.net/wiki/display/TOOL/Generating+Tests+with+Franca | 13:38 |
klausbirken | Up to now, I collected some ideas and aspects for this topic, and looked a little deeper in what could be done with Franca and fMBT (which is quite cool). | 13:38 |
klausbirken | You are invited to add stuff to the page... maybe someone has used fMBT before or similar tools before and can give input | 13:39 |
klausbirken | Or put a new section "requirements" on that page. | 13:39 |
paulsherwood | klausbirken: this looks like a great start, thank you! | 13:39 |
klausbirken | I will try to make it more concrete, provide some examples until next week. | 13:40 |
paulsherwood | are others interested in working with klausbirken on this? klausbirken - are there things you awould like help with? | 13:41 |
klausbirken | Input on test frameworks you are using would be useful… | 13:41 |
KlausUhl | I would be interested to contribute to this. I am just not sure how much time I will be able to "donate". | 13:42 |
paulsherwood | for CIAT? or input from othrs on their preferred test frameworks? | 13:42 |
* paulsherwood thinks CIAT needs to support multiple frameworks | 13:42 | |
KlausUhl | For generating tests with Franca | 13:42 |
klausbirken | I am not sure, fMBT for example is more than a test framework, it can generate test sequences from independent test steps | 13:43 |
klausbirken | there might be similar tools, which we should look into a little deeper | 13:43 |
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paulsherwood | ok. klausbirken i think it would be worth you emailing to the list specifically on this, better than it being lost in the minutes of this meeting ;) | 13:44 |
gunnarx | The discussion about frameworks is a never ending story. The fact is that you need "one system" that executes tests that are written in multiple frameworks. It's not rocket science really and typically lands the solution in some shell scripts as glue, CIAT executes. | 13:44 |
gunnarx | Just do it already :) | 13:44 |
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paulsherwood | gunnarx: yup | 13:44 |
paulsherwood | ok any more on CommonAPI today? | 13:45 |
steve__ | +1=>gunnar on executor | 13:45 |
gunnarx | Yes | 13:45 |
klausbirken | not from my side | 13:45 |
paulsherwood | == AMM == | 13:45 |
klausbirken | gunnarx: yes, this is the CIAT aspect. I am looking into generation of tests from interfaces, not execution of tests. | 13:45 |
gunnarx | If I may take the cue to comment quickly on franca_install_automation. CommonAPI install is broken still | 13:45 |
klausbirken | Regarding AMM: I didn't prepare the agenda proposal for Franca yet, still todo. | 13:46 |
paulsherwood | can someone volunteer to check that TT sessions are properly shepherded through GENIVI process? | 13:46 |
gunnarx | Wait, which topic are we on? | 13:46 |
paulsherwood | i moved onto AMM, gunnarx. but i note your comment about CommonAPI | 13:46 |
gunnarx | It was just introduction to a request for help, but if you want to move on... | 13:47 |
klausbirken | AMM first, CommonAPI afterwards? | 13:47 |
paulsherwood | yes please | 13:47 |
gunnarx | ok, go on | 13:47 |
* paulsherwood was a bit hasty in moving on, and apologises | 13:47 | |
pavelkonopelko | re shepherding, it's most easily done in the PMO | 13:48 |
paulsherwood | pavelkonopelko: do i take that as your raising your hand? :) | 13:48 |
pavelkonopelko | ...whomever joins on a regular basis PMO calls does | 13:48 |
pavelkonopelko | ... raise their hands | 13:49 |
klausbirken | paulsherwood: TT "shepherd" - maybe we can sync with philrobn right now, he is online | 13:49 |
paulsherwood | pavelkonopelko: i do, but i keep having to drop off it | 13:49 |
paulsherwood | klausbirken: good idea, but i believe the process is not public? | 13:49 |
klausbirken | paulsherwood: I see, you're right. | 13:49 |
* paulsherwood can maybe voluntell someone, as walt called it, if all else fails :) | 13:50 | |
paulsherwood | ok if no takers, i'll sort it separately | 13:50 |
paulsherwood | any more points on AMM? | 13:51 |
paulsherwood | 5 | 13:51 |
paulsherwood | 4 | 13:51 |
paulsherwood | 3 | 13:51 |
paulsherwood | 2 | 13:51 |
gunnarx | No the content of the GENIVI Members meeting is not planned in public. The content of conferences that GENIVI host for the entire industry is of course published. | 13:51 |
gunnarx | Typical process is to add sessions to the Wiki page containing all proposed sessions, P Robin schedules them if they are ready to be scheduled | 13:51 |
gunnarx | So, that's the needed shepherding right now I think? :) | 13:51 |
paulsherwood | yes. who will do it, though. me i guess :) | 13:52 |
gunnarx | Team lead is a good guess :) | 13:52 |
paulsherwood | any further comments on AMM before we return to CommonAPI | 13:52 |
gunnarx | But could be by the topic owner/speaker of course. | 13:52 |
gunnarx | I'm done | 13:52 |
* paulsherwood notes that if gunnarx had explained how much work this actually involves, he might not have been so quick to volunteer :_) | 13:52 | |
paulsherwood | == CommonAPI redux == | 13:53 |
paulsherwood | gunnarx: have you raised a bug? | 13:53 |
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gunnarx | let me restart | 13:53 |
paulsherwood | (and incidentally should be be doing that using Jira now?) | 13:53 |
gunnarx | Now you're jumping to another topic. | 13:53 |
paulsherwood | sorry | 13:54 |
paulsherwood | gunnarx: please go ahead | 13:54 |
gunnarx | OK, I saw a cue to comment on franca_install_automation | 13:54 |
gunnarx | I want to inform: It does not yet install commonAPI but I'd like it to. Maybe someone can help out. | 13:55 |
gunnarx | I think the problem right now is C API depends on CDT Tools. I may have been too eager to add all CDT to the install, because it seemed useful ,but it landed me in dependency hell | 13:55 |
gunnarx | Which is maybe normal in Eclipse ecosystem? :) | 13:55 |
klausbirken | gunnarx: dependency hell is not only in the Eclipse space :-) | 13:56 |
gunnarx | The problem is, the automation does not use Eclipse's built in dependency meta data | 13:56 |
gunnarx | So I must explicitly install every needed package, in the right order.. So far it's been OK, but now I feel like there are circular dependencies. | 13:56 |
klausbirken | I see - I created an installation locally I while ago - I can check. | 13:56 |
klausbirken | Is there a branch with your current state? | 13:57 |
gunnarx | Also difficult to find out where exactly some required packages actually have their home. | 13:57 |
gunnarx | Yes, I believe I pushed cpp_common_api branch | 13:57 |
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klausbirken | Ok - I'll check. | 13:57 |
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gunnarx | OK, my request for help has been noted, and status of the project informed. I'm hopeful it's solveable. | 13:58 |
klausbirken | Last question: CommonAPI 3.1.3? | 13:58 |
gunnarx | Yes, I believe that's the one I tried. I could come back in a minute with more info, or we could actually take it outside of the meeting. | 13:59 |
paulsherwood | outside the meetign please. ok, if that completed the CommonAPI redux... shall we move to AOB? | 13:59 |
gunnarx | yes, ok | 13:59 |
klausbirken | Fine for me | 13:59 |
paulsherwood | == AOB == | 13:59 |
steve__ | Short notice, but there will be an open LTSI workshop at LinuxCon | 14:00 |
steve__ | http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/ltsi-dev/2015-August/005529.html | 14:00 |
paulsherwood | great, tvm. | 14:00 |
paulsherwood | any other AOB from folks? | 14:00 |
gunnarx | Zzzz :) | 14:00 |
jeremiah | klausbirken: I'll come back to you about Franca testing, I'd like to know more and see if the tests I'm writing ought to be written with Franca. | 14:00 |
gunnarx | just kidding | 14:00 |
steve__ | =) JTA test and longer term support appear to be on agenda | 14:00 |
klausbirken | jeremiah: Fine. | 14:01 |
* paulsherwood notes that he will email the list seeking people's feedback abou whether the irc format for this meeting has any future :) | 14:01 | |
pavelkonopelko | steve__: how about LinuxCon Europe in October? | 14:01 |
gunnarx | paulsherwood, to answer, no bugs to go bugzilla | 14:01 |
steve__ | Don't know. Ask them on LTSI list :) | 14:01 |
paulsherwood | gunnarx: ok, thanks. Joel_Replogle - what is the purpose of having the new public JIRA, please? | 14:01 |
gunnarx | for now. I'm happy to jump to new infrastructure, including Wiki, when we know what we're doing. I don't think the jump is ready. | 14:01 |
jeremiah | Well, Tim Bird is the chair of ELCE I believe and is on LTSI so . . . | 14:02 |
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* paulsherwood notices the time, and proposes to bring the meeting to a close. folks would be welcome to continue the conversation here, of course | 14:02 | |
steve__ | yes and I can imagine many of the usual suspects will be at ELC | 14:02 |
gunnarx | And that goes for the Wiki too but I guess a meeting is planned to fill the spaces in an ordered manner. | 14:03 |
* klausbirken thinks that this kind of IRC meeting is much more exhaustive than conf calls | 14:03 | |
paulsherwood | exhaustive, or exhausting? :) | 14:03 |
* gunnarx agrees | 14:03 | |
klausbirken | exhausting - sorry | 14:03 |
Joel_Replogle | New JIRA has tight integration with Confluence. | 14:03 |
gunnarx | oops I misread. I'd say both. | 14:03 |
paulsherwood | ok... well let's discuss it on the ml after folks have a chance to get their breath back :) | 14:04 |
gunnarx | Joel_Replogle, sure I agree. I think the new infra can be great. I just want to avoid confusion in between. | 14:04 |
gunnarx | And don't stop contributing to the MediaWiki! Content is better than no content :) | 14:04 |
paulsherwood | anyone object to me closing the 'official' meeting now? | 14:04 |
steve__ | nope | 14:04 |
gunnarx | no | 14:04 |
pavelkonopelko | NOP | 14:04 |
Joel_Replogle | Gunnar - complete agreement! | 14:04 |
klausbirken | Yes both. I feel like the guy running behind a car - exhausted. :-) | 14:04 |
* paulsherwood thinks this was a very useful discussion, thanks to all | 14:05 | |
paulsherwood | == Tools Team Meeting ends == | 14:05 |
* paulsherwood staggers to the bar | 14:05 | |
jeremiah | w00t | 14:05 |
steve__ | What's that your buying the drinks at the bar? Cool. | 14:06 |
paulsherwood | it's a virtual irc bar... what are you having, steve__ ? :) | 14:06 |
* klausbirken thinks that I also feel like running in front of the car - tired :-) | 14:06 | |
steve__ | I think i'll wait for you to buy them at the real bar in Seoul! | 14:06 |
paulsherwood | yup... irc can be quite intense | 14:07 |
paulsherwood | steve__: absolutely | 14:07 |
steve__ | I'm glad that was on the record. | 14:07 |
klausbirken | paulsherwood: But you do not have to prepare minutes, don't you? That's a benefit. | 14:07 |
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paulsherwood | klausbirken: yes, true. and the record is more complete this way. no possibility for someone to misrepresent or forget to minute something | 14:11 |
* rjek vastly thoroughly prefers IRC meetings to conference calls, and finds them marginally better than face-to-face, once you're used to them. | 14:12 | |
rjek | You can't mishear, you can't misremember. | 14:13 |
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rjek | You can still misinterpret, but all forms of communication have that. | 14:13 |
rjek | Unless we all want to learn Lojban? | 14:13 |
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klausbirken | I looked into Lojban in the 90s, is there still an active community? | 14:14 |
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rjek | klausbirken: I think there are a handful of people who speak it fluently, more who can read. | 14:14 |
rjek | I don't think it's as popular as Esperanto or Klingon for modern constructed languages, though. | 14:14 |
rjek | And I don't think Klingon would be a good fit. | 14:14 |
klausbirken | Klingon not, indeed. translate.google.com doesn't offer Lojban :-( | 14:15 |
rjek | I think there's a Lojban -> English translater, but not the other way around: English is too imprecise :) | 14:16 |
klausbirken | rjek: You mentioned "IRC is marginally better than f2f" above - most people I know would object to this… | 14:16 |
rjek | Most people I know object to me. | 14:17 |
klausbirken | rjek: :-) … here is a podcast episode which discusses how speech recognition could be used to create a transcript of our whole life - it seems this would at least create meeting minutes for F2F meetings automatically (http://reviewthefuture.com/?p=489) | 14:19 |
rjek | klausbirken: I wonder if modern speech recognition is good enough? | 14:20 |
rjek | All the ones I've used yeild amusing typos | 14:20 |
rjek | Sometimes slanderous! | 14:20 |
klausbirken | rjek: no not yet. Too context-insensitive. Not good enough for a full-text grep in our social interactions. But this would be creepy anyway. | 14:20 |
rjek | The BBC have a very fancy research tool based on subtitles/closed captions and speech recognition where that is not available that lets you search recent TV programmes by what was said. | 14:21 |
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rjek | (And radio programmes) | 14:21 |
klausbirken | rjek: Nice. | 14:22 |
gunnarx | Pushed current state again. Hopefully remember to clean up the history when it's time to merge this. | 14:22 |
rjek | They have millions of hours of training corpus though: 95% of the BBC's output must have subtitles, so they already have what was said as both plain text and as a waveform, which lets them train a model for catching the last 5% and the radio programmes. | 14:23 |
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klausbirken | gunnarx: I'll check this tonight. AFAIK, the dependency CommonAPI=>CDT is not really needed (but mandatory in the current CommonAPI version, but when generating C++ code it might be useful to have CDT installed anyway) | 14:23 |
gunnarx | Got disconnected. Hmm, looking at the logs I seem to have missed a bunch of stuff. | 14:24 |
gunnarx | Did you see my line "I just pushed the branch in broken state" directly after the meeting? | 14:24 |
gunnarx | I suppose not... | 14:24 |
klausbirken | rjek: That's a good starting point, indeed. They are probably using something like NuPIC to do the learning... | 14:24 |
klausbirken | gunnarx: No, I didn't see that. | 14:24 |
klausbirken | gunnarx: Either the timeline progress was too fast or it got lost. | 14:25 |
gunnarx | paulsherwood, I like that the logs are updated quickly. Apparently I've been typing into empty space the last 10 minutes. :-/ | 14:25 |
gunnarx | OK, in the meantime I fixed it and it looks like it installs OK, have not tested the result though. | 14:26 |
gunnarx | I have pushed the branch again. It's not cleaned up but just to have it in some kind of state | 14:26 |
gunnarx | Please confirm that I'm alive. My connection is total crap it seems. | 14:30 |
jonathanmaw | gunnarx: confirmed speaking, will need a biologist to confirm alive. | 14:31 |
paulsherwood | lol | 14:31 |
gunnarx | Watched Shaun of the dead yesterday evening. So you never know. | 14:32 |
gunnarx | :) | 14:32 |
klausbirken | paulsherwood: Is there a robots.txt configuration for the logs of this IRC group? I cannot find items from the logs in my web search results… | 14:48 |
paulsherwood | good question... | 14:48 |
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paulsherwood | klausbirken: https://irclogs.baserock.org/%23baserock.2015-08-10.log.html#t2015-08-10T14:48:33 | 14:58 |
paulsherwood | so maybe it's just taking time for google to find things | 14:58 |
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klausbirken | paulsherwood: OK, thanks. It seems Google lags behind a several days, maybe their server farms are not huge enough :-) | 15:06 |
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paulsherwood | klausbirken: maybe they are trying to keep the information from you? iiuc everyone's googlesphere is different | 15:10 |
paulsherwood | :) | 15:10 |
klausbirken | paulsherwood: Maybe… | 15:11 |
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KlausUhl | //part | 15:45 |
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paulsherwood | pavelkonopelko: thanks for the feedback on the irc experiment, i think your suggestions are sensible | 16:04 |
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* paulsherwood refuses to quit :) | 16:10 | |
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jlrmagnus | Morning | 16:19 |
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paulsherwood | hi :) | 16:25 |
CTtpollard | has anyone built and deployed the genivo demo for renesas porter recently? | 16:28 |
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paulsherwood | i'm guessing not | 16:39 |
paulsherwood | or at least, not on this channel today :) | 16:39 |
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