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| paulsherwood | is wiki.baserock.org down for everyone or just me? | 08:05 |
|---|---|---|
| noisecell | paulsherwood, it is down for me too | 08:08 |
| paulsherwood | :/ | 08:17 |
| ironfoot | all branchable.com | 08:35 |
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| * paulsherwood has a backup | 09:15 | |
| paulsherwood | liw is checking, it's something to do with letsencrypt cert, should be resolved today | 09:15 |
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| paulsherwood | i've pushed the wiki content to https://gitlab.com/baserock/wiki.baserock.org | 11:58 |
| paulsherwood | maybe we should take this as an opportunity to tidy up the content and present it via gitlab? | 11:59 |
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| paulsherwood | may be of interest here https://lists.trustable.io/pipermail/trustable-distros/2018-July/000008.html | 13:23 |
| ironfoot | circular dependencies within baserock? :S | 13:32 |
| * paulsherwood is surprised by that... i thought we'd pulled them all apart | 13:32 | |
| ironfoot | well, a circular dependency in definitions means you can't build it ever | 13:33 |
| ironfoot | or used to mean | 13:34 |
| ironfoot | I feel like this is a misinterpretation of the current definitions | 13:34 |
| paulsherwood | flatmush: ^^ ? | 13:34 |
| flatmush | circular dependencies mean things like | 13:35 |
| noisecell | ironfoot, the circular dependencies have been broken using tarballs as far as we have seen | 13:35 |
| flatmush | coreutils requires "join" which is part of coreutils | 13:35 |
| flatmush | we get around that by adding a random "join.c" downloaded from openbsd | 13:35 |
| flatmush | and obviously gcc depends on gcc | 13:35 |
| flatmush | some packages when updated become like this, flex depends on bison which depends on flex | 13:36 |
| ironfoot | aha, I get what you mean now | 13:36 |
| flatmush | this has to be handled with bootstrapping as is done by gcc | 13:36 |
| flatmush | but in many cases currently, we just download a tarball | 13:36 |
| flatmush | like for autotools | 13:36 |
| ironfoot | I think that would make the whole bootstraping process more complete, but more complicated at the same time | 13:37 |
| ironfoot | and difficult to maintain | 13:37 |
| flatmush | it would add complexity to bootstrapping yeah, I don't see that you can really claim to be building from source otherwise though | 13:37 |
| ironfoot | what about the packages that only recommend you to build from tarball releases? | 13:38 |
| flatmush | that's gnu nonsense | 13:38 |
| flatmush | do not trust | 13:38 |
| ironfoot | I guess that with bst it would be easier to create more bootstrap elements | 13:39 |
| flatmush | download this tarball with random content I generated on my machine, but don't worry, it's totally fine | 13:39 |
| flatmush | seems to undermine the whole idea of building from git so that you know what you're getting | 13:39 |
| noisecell | ironfoot, yes, with bst given that you are able to split runtime and buildtime dependencies the bootstrap makes more sense | 13:39 |
| flatmush | the advice is to make the build less painful, I get that, but that's not what we're aiming for (or not only) | 13:39 |
| paulsherwood | flatmush: well, if the tarballs only contain source? | 13:40 |
| * noisecell would like to diff tarballs against their tags and check if that is true | 13:41 | |
| flatmush | the tarballs contain autogenerated content that I'd argue is impossible to read/audit | 13:42 |
| flatmush | generated by the host tools of a host machine which we have no control over | 13:42 |
| flatmush | if the tarballs contain source that's not in git, then that's an issue anyway | 13:42 |
| paulsherwood | in the baserock case, the (configured) source is in git iirc | 13:43 |
| paulsherwood | but i take your point | 13:43 |
| flatmush | adding tarballs to git doesn't add anything | 13:43 |
| flatmush | we either have to say we trust the generation of the tarballs or not | 13:43 |
| flatmush | I'm assuming the less things we have to trust, the better | 13:44 |
| paulsherwood | oh, agreed | 13:44 |
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