IRC logs for #baserock for Tuesday, 2017-02-14

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jjardonHi, can anyone review please?09:22
gtristanHow is evolution 'legacy' ?09:23
rjekHow is webkit 1 insecure?09:28
* rjek thought 1 and 2 were developed together, but 2 was multi-process.09:28
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jjardonWebkit1 is deprecated; it's even gonna be removed from the next fedora version09:44
jjardonEvo is not legacy, that version of evolution is; feel free to upgrade it and move it back to gnome stratum09:46
gtristanjjardon, I disagree with the logic here09:46
gtristanmotivation to upgrade Evo to a new webkit supporting version = existant... motivation to remove something for the sake of removing it, not so much ?09:47
rjekjjardon: My understanding was that WebKit 1 is /not/ deprecated; 1 and 2 use the same rendering code, but it is a significant difference in API.  Although this information is probably from 2015; when did they deprecate it?09:48
jjardonRemember this is webkitgtk09:49
rjekRight, so WebKitGtk+ using WebKit 1 is deprecated, not WebKit 1.09:51
jjardongtristan it will be removed until someone upgrade it;  it will also save 1h:30m of build time09:52
pedroalvarezhehe, let's remove the entire gnome system to save time :P09:53
pedroalvarezare newer versions with webkitgtk2 support already available?09:54
jjardonI think so09:55
gtristanjjardon, honestly I think this is wrong, you are removing an essential functionality from the gnome system (an email client is pretty essential), because it will save time to build ?10:01
* rjek pops mutt in10:01
gtristanfrom my pov, honestly I dont mind other than conversions to bst will result in a less useful system, but without this change; updating evo to a latest stable ref can be automated with `track`10:02
gtristanin any case, upstream gnome modulesets are more important10:02
jjardonNo, I'm removing it because it using a library that is full of cve's10:02
jjardonBuild time is a nice second effect10:02
gtristanjjardon, right, but you're removing it, and you also point out that it can be upgraded10:03
gtristanSo why would upgrading Evo not *block* the removal of WebKitGtk1 *first* ?10:03
jjardonWe do not build webkitgtk1 in gnome anymore10:03
gtristanjjardon, would you prefer to run a distro on your laptop that has no email client ? or run a distro on your laptop which has en email client that has known security issues ?10:04
gtristanI guess is the question.10:04
jjardonIt's being moved, not removed; feel free to work on the upgrade10:04
gtristanThat's more work overall, what's the rush ?10:05
jjardonThere is no rush10:05
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rjekThe security issue at the moment is surely imaginary: nobody uses this10:07
jjardonI simply don't want to keep building sth that is broken ( more if it's sth as big as WebKit )10:07
rjekIf we moved everything in definitions to dedicated strata that were old or full of CVEs, we'd have nothing10:07
jjardonrjek patches welcomed to update stuff10:08
rjekI'm saying that the logic being applied here is faulty10:09
gtristanTo be honest I dont want to argue this specific issue. The wider ethos of this is more important to me; yes not many people, almost none, are maintaining these things (dropping the unmaintained was a first step in helping that situation)10:10
rjeka) removing or moving something because it's old and crusty if applied across definitions would result in something empty (but quick building), b) saying moving it is bad because it means we no longer have X feature when nobody uses X feature10:10
gtristanbreaking functionality should not be done so lightly, though.10:10
jjardonIf someone wants to spend some time to upgrade Evo and empathy so they don't depend on webkitgtk1 great; in the meantime I do not want to waste time building sth I know is broken10:12
jjardonWe have done this in gnome modulesets upstream before; or you upgrade your stuff to meet a minimum level or quality or you are out of the official release10:13
pedroalvarezwhen are we releasing?10:17
gtristanjjardon, this is just the point, we are not wasting time building something if it's actually needed for an email client10:18
gtristanAnd note that the gnome release modulesets are not exactly the same, they are statement that the release team makes to the world and to the internal projects of what is the official release10:19
gtristanin which case, doing so at the beginning of the release cycle (which is still a _harsh_ move) is a message to maintainers that their module will not be in the next release if they don't change their deps.10:20
gtristanIn *this* case, we have a reference system that has pretty much every *basic* thing that you need on a GNOME desktop - that should overrule random upgrades of middleware as well as removals of disliked libraries.10:21
jjardonnothing is being removed; only temporarily moved until someone has the time to upgrade; you can always put the legacy stratum on your system if you want10:24
jjardonWe can create a branch point here if you want to keep a reference to the current system10:25
gtristanjjardon, I'm not arguing this specific point, I'm only arguing to try to convince you, only because I would *like* baserock to become something more serious10:28
gtristanI think this kind of change, in general, when maintaining a reference build... needs to be blocked when it unnecessarily regresses system behavior10:29
jjardonSo you prefer to build sth you know is broken instead?10:31
gtristanjjardon, it's is certainly more broken without an emailer, than it is with an email that has some known bugs, yes.10:38
jjardonok, one sec, let me rework my branch10:41
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