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| ssam2 | Aboriginal fails to build the cross GCC on my system because I have systemtap installed | 09:17 |
|---|---|---|
| ssam2 | cross compiling :-( | 09:17 |
| ssam2 | seems someone sent a patch to fix this to GCC in 2012 but it never went anywhere | 09:18 |
| richard_maw | would building a native chroot first make it work? | 09:19 |
| richard_maw | i.e. is it just systemtap headers being installed that's the problem, or does it really complain if there's kernel modules about? | 09:20 |
| ssam2 | it's just the headers being installed | 09:20 |
| ssam2 | so running in a chroot would work around the problem, but is a bit sad | 09:21 |
| richard_maw | I'm lacking all the context on the aboriginal stuff, but for reliability I would have thought the best approach would have involved making a native chroot first | 09:22 |
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| ssam2 | I've always looked at Aboriginal as something that's expected to work anywhere | 09:23 |
| ssam2 | but actually perhaps it's not | 09:23 |
| ssam2 | i'll ask in #toybox later I guess | 09:23 |
| richard_maw | I think you need something like the google blaze sandboxing thing if you're going to try building without a chroot, since otherwise you're at the mercy of *every* component to behave | 09:24 |
| richard_maw | IIRC blaze's sandbox lets you restrict which paths the build system is allowed to access, so you can at least detect when the build system is misbehaving | 09:27 |
| ssam2 | i would love to rewrite GCC's build system, but i'd need infinite time | 09:29 |
| ssam2 | Note Aboriginal aims to build the minimum possible number of things | 09:30 |
| ssam2 | it's akin to Baserock's build-essential.morph | 09:30 |
| ssam2 | the idea being that it builds you a minimal build environment that you can then run clean builds in | 09:31 |
| richard_maw | ah, so it's how you produce that chroot | 09:31 |
| richard_maw | I fear it would fall into the same problems we had, namely all the other self-hosting toolchains | 09:32 |
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| ssam2 | it certainly doesn't have any magic solution to the problem of cycling dependencies | 09:33 |
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| ssam2 | *cyclic | 09:33 |
| ssam2 | it doesn't claim to, though | 09:34 |
| ssam2 | compiler authors can either provide a way to bootstrap their compiler from C, or they can do their own cross-building for every platform they want to support and provide binaries | 09:34 |
| ssam2 | right, it seems like the problem is that my GCC build is: build=x86_64, host=armv6l, target=armv6l | 09:51 |
| ssam2 | since host==target, GCC's configure looks at /usr/include for native headers | 09:52 |
| ssam2 | I guess Aboriginal can't run this build in a chroot, because my machine can't run armv6l code | 09:52 |
| ssam2 | wait, it could run it in an x86_64 chroot. That would mean a whole extra build step... but it might be worth it for the extra reliability | 09:58 |
| ssam2 | maybe we could do recommend a 2-stage Aboriginal build, first host->host, second host->$target | 09:59 |
| ssam2 | -do | 09:59 |
| ssam2 | although i would still like gcc to be less broken | 09:59 |
| richard_maw | I think that's up there with the moon on a stick. | 10:00 |
| pedroalvarez | :q | 10:02 |
| jmacs | Wouldn't we all. | 10:04 |
| pedroalvarez | wrong window, but :q! | 10:06 |
| edcragg | :p | 10:06 |
| ssam2 | hmm, possibly this is an issue in tristan's build script for new GCC | 10:10 |
| ssam2 | which could pass in --with-native-system-header-dir if it wanted to, to point to the armv6 headers | 10:11 |
| ssam2 | seems --with-sysroot and friends wouldn't have any effect because host==target | 10:11 |
| ssam2 | which seems wrong, but i think it'd be a hard assumption to change | 10:11 |
| persia | ssam2: If your machine isn't the architecture you want it to be, linux's binfmt-misc allows you to silently invoke an interpreter for non-native code: while this is often used for Java, you could use it with qemu-static, so that you have a foo chroot on your bar machine that apparently executes. I know this works for armv5, armv6, and armv7 on ppc or x86_64, and for armv5, armv6, and armv7 on ppc. | 10:12 |
| persia | s/on ppc or x86_84/and ppc on x86_64/ | 10:13 |
| pedroalvarez | ssam2: hit this error using bsaerock-export today https://github.com/ssssam/baserock-export/pull/2 | 10:49 |
| ssam2 | thanks | 10:52 |
| ssam2 | adding --with-native-system-header-dir=$(STAGE_DIR) seems to have fixed my Aboriginal woe | 10:52 |
| ssam2 | ha, my next issue is the OOM killer killing this 'genautomata' program | 11:07 |
| ssam2 | https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=70473 | 11:09 |
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| ssam2 | I've got my aboriginal-ybd into gear, but this initial swap file creation takes a really long time! | 12:39 |
| ssam2 | 10 mins and counting | 12:39 |
| pedroalvarez | I fear it is going to depend on lots of ram and ssd to be usable | 12:50 |
| locallycompact | is it not possible to create repositories on a trove manually with gitano? | 12:53 |
| locallycompact | ssh@troveprefix create troveprefix/foobar | 12:53 |
| locallycompact | *ssh git@ | 12:54 |
| pedroalvarez | it should be possible | 12:55 |
| locallycompact | When I do that I get a fatal anyway | 12:55 |
| ssam2 | i think you need troveprefix/projectname/foobar | 12:56 |
| ssam2 | and you need to be in projectname-admins or projectname-managers group to do that | 12:56 |
| ssam2 | and you need to manually create those groups before you can be in them | 12:56 |
| locallycompact | ah | 12:56 |
| ssam2 | It might be documented/scripted somewhere | 12:57 |
| locallycompact | Thanks I get the idea | 12:57 |
| ssam2 | http://wiki.baserock.org/Trove/reference/#index2h3 suggests i'm wrong, but I think it's actually the manual that's wrong | 12:58 |
| ssam2 | i have a feeling my Aboriginal worker VM is stuck in a busy loop :( | 13:04 |
| ssam2 | 100% CPU but no IO at all | 13:04 |
| ssam2 | the last line of the log file is 'Uncompressing Linux... done, booting the kernel.' | 13:04 |
| ssam2 | this is the full log.. also has some warnings which may be relevant http://paste.baserock.org/uhegoxogig | 13:05 |
| ssam2 | seems that the dev-environment.sh script from this Aboriginal build isn't working as expected. I'll try the same thing with upstream Aboriginal | 13:16 |
| ssam2 | ok, upstream Aboriginal doesn't seem to actually manage to boot either for armv6l | 13:42 |
| * ssam2 tries a prebuilt Aboriginal armv6l image | 13:44 | |
| ssam2 | ok, seems that is broken too. but the prebuilt armv5l image has booted | 13:50 |
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| paulsherwood | 18:00 <+ssam2> if the goal is for developers to use this, it should be able to run on my laptop, surely? | 14:25 |
| paulsherwood | ssam2: i think developers doing builds can usefully reduce their waiting time using AWS, is all :) | 14:26 |
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| paulsherwood | i know gtristan bought a humungous devbox | 14:28 |
| ssam2 | it's an option, I agree | 14:28 |
| ssam2 | in some cases | 14:28 |
| ssam2 | it wouldn't fix whatever has broken armv6l in aboriginal, though :-) | 14:29 |
| paulsherwood | did you manage to 'build some Baserocks' ? | 14:29 |
| ssam2 | not yet, i'm retrying with armv5l | 14:30 |
| ssam2 | the prebuilt armv5 Aboriginal image seems to work, unlike the prebuilt armv6 image | 14:30 |
| paulsherwood | ack | 14:31 |
| paulsherwood | btw i'm unclear what to say to your simplification of build-steps... it's elegant, but it means build-tools are back to hard-coding pre- and post- iiuc | 14:32 |
| ssam2 | is that a problem? | 14:32 |
| ssam2 | if you don't like the approach, the original idea is workable | 14:33 |
| ssam2 | I would want to put a comment in our DEFAULTS file explaining the purpose of the pre- and post- commands, though | 14:33 |
| ssam2 | since if people predefine values for them in DEFAULTS, they become pointless | 14:33 |
| ssam2 | or we could remove the pre- and post- variants, but we do actually use them for the intended purpose (prepending or appending the default commands) in various places | 14:34 |
| paulsherwood | for purity we should define pre- and post- in the schema too, is all? | 14:40 |
| ssam2 | I don't understand what you mean.. | 14:41 |
| ssam2 | my point is that pre-build-commands and post-build-commands shouldn't be treated the same as build-commands: users should be allowed to predefine build-commands in DEFAULTS, but should not be allowed to predefine pre-build-commands or post-build-commands in DEFAULTS | 14:42 |
| paulsherwood | i agree... my concenr is that we shouldn't hard-code 'pre-' and 'post-' in the tools. there should be build-steps and build-step-stages or soemthing | 14:45 |
| ssam2 | i see. but what would we gain from that? | 14:45 |
| paulsherwood | pls hold | 14:46 |
| gtristan | ssam2, unable to boot the armv6l arch ? I think I did not test that arch after switching to the virtio 9p mount :-/ | 14:53 |
| gtristan | ssam2, could it be that you have an older qemu ? | 14:54 |
| ssam2 | could be that | 14:56 |
| ssam2 | it seems the upstream Aboriginal armv6 image is broken, so this isn't your fault :-) | 14:56 |
| gtristan | is that output from aboriginal-start [...] --interactive ? | 14:56 |
| gtristan | hmmm, so did you boot armv5l without issue ? | 14:56 |
| ssam2 | what I pasted was the ybd worker log file | 14:56 |
| ssam2 | I've booted the upstream Aboriginal armv5 image OK, i'm yet to try yours (still building) | 14:56 |
| gtristan | right, yeah the output of that is a bit slim, you dont get any of the kernel console output cause, it's detached from any console | 14:57 |
| ssam2 | right | 14:57 |
| ssam2 | but using the run-environment.sh script it stops at the same point | 14:57 |
| ssam2 | so I think this is actually the kernel getting stuck very early on | 14:57 |
| gtristan | with --interactive you boot the way ybd would start it up, but you get a shell | 14:57 |
| gtristan | I see | 14:57 |
| ssam2 | i'll report it to the Aboriginal mailing list I guess, but might try building qemu master first | 14:58 |
| gtristan | yeah some of the qemu-system-arm errors in there seem to point to qemu not supporting the virtio stuff | 14:58 |
| gtristan | I have debian testing so it's quite bleeding edge I guess :-/ | 14:58 |
| ssam2 | I have 2.3.1 | 14:59 |
| ssam2 | oh, which is quite old -- I see 2.6.0-rc1 in Git | 14:59 |
| gtristan | I asked landley about building qemu as a part of aboriginal, he said he used to do that but gave up once it started depending on glib and such | 14:59 |
| ssam2 | i think it's OK to require the user to provide that | 15:00 |
| ssam2 | it several orders of magnitude easier to build than the GNU toolchain :-) | 15:00 |
| gtristan | yeah, it would just be interesting to control the exact version of everything you're gonna be using | 15:04 |
| ssam2 | that was the plan with Baserock, once upon a time :-) | 15:05 |
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| ssam2 | ok, it works! | 15:40 |
| ssam2 | i have an armv5 native build running on my laptop via ybd, which is pretty cool | 15:40 |
| ssam2 | it does seem pretty slow though. Gawk's ./configure script took nearly 5 minutes | 15:40 |
| gtristan | ssam2, configure is slow... compiling regular objects is pretty quick; for those low level packages I think they all compiler faster than they configure (except glibc/gcc of course) | 15:43 |
| gtristan | then compiling libtool objects is hellishly slow again | 15:43 |
| ssam2 | yes, build of gawk took 2 minutes | 15:43 |
| ssam2 | which is pretty good | 15:43 |
| ssam2 | so we just need to kill autoconf! | 15:43 |
| gtristan | having like 4 instances at a time is nice, cause qemu doesnt do multi-core so they take a constant amount of cpu resources | 15:43 |
| gtristan | but then... | 15:44 |
| ssam2 | although autoconf is part of the reason we have to do this trickery in the first place... a decent build system would be able to crosscompile in most cases | 15:44 |
| gtristan | the IPC is shaky, I almost always lose one instance when I set instances to 4 | 15:44 |
| gtristan | So one question | 15:45 |
| gtristan | Do we maintain any baserock build of... poky ? | 15:45 |
| pedroalvarez | hahah wat? | 15:46 |
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| pedroalvarez | look what you have done ^ | 15:46 |
| CTtpollard | haha | 15:46 |
| ssam2 | we don't | 15:46 |
| gtristan | If someone can come right now and say... I have this definitions branch which builds exactly the content of poky... then there is some opportunity | 15:47 |
| pedroalvarez | actually we looked into exporting yocto recipes into baserock definitions.. | 15:48 |
| pedroalvarez | http://wiki.baserock.org/projects/importing-from-bitbake/ | 15:48 |
| edcragg | that would be a handy thing to have | 15:49 |
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| ssam2 | same problem with the Aboriginal armv6 image using git master of QEMU | 16:38 |
| ssam2 | i'll report it to the mailing list I guess | 16:39 |
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| ssam2 | oops, now I've killed the wrong qemu, and I guess my aboriginal/ybd build is going to hang forever | 16:40 |
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| gtristan | ssam2, yup, have I put enough emphasis on how horrible my IPC solution is ? ;-) | 16:46 |
| ssam2 | ctrl+c worked at least :-) | 16:46 |
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