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| pedroalvarez | paulsherwood: that's nice | 09:10 |
|---|---|---|
| pedroalvarez | is this the full list of overlaps of a system? I was expecting more | 09:14 |
| rdale | i think we should create two split components for busybox - busybox-shell for the binaries, and busu | 09:14 |
| rdale | busybox-init for just the init executable | 09:14 |
| paulsherwood | that's everything for trove, iiuc | 09:19 |
| * pedroalvarez thinks we should drop the word "trove" from this conversation | 09:20 | |
| pedroalvarez | oh | 09:20 |
| pedroalvarez | I misunderstood | 09:20 |
| pedroalvarez | good moringn | 09:20 |
| paulsherwood | actually, there's a bug in my regex (not surprising)... so some are false positives | 09:21 |
| pedroalvarez | that's good, less overlaps! | 09:22 |
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| pedroalvarez | I'm really happy with that list tbh :) | 09:23 |
| paulsherwood | :) | 09:25 |
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| gtristan | python 2 & 3 look worrying, shouldnt they parallel install nicely ? | 09:28 |
| gtristan | indeed the shortness of the list is satisfying though :) | 09:29 |
| paulsherwood | gtristan: maybe those overlapping files are identical? | 09:29 |
| * paulsherwood will have to chck | 09:29 | |
| pedroalvarez | the overlaps of python2 vs python 3? are symlinks to the specific versions | 09:30 |
| pedroalvarez | jjardon is trying to fix them in https://gerrit.baserock.org/#/c/1787/1/strata/core/python3.morph, but I found some issues testing that patch | 09:31 |
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| paulsherwood | is there anything special about procps-ng ? | 11:10 |
| pedroalvarez | I don't understand the question, did i miss some context? | 11:18 |
| paulsherwood | sorry, yes. it's probably just me. the overlaps check fails to report that procps-ng.meta contains bin/watch and bin/pidof, because that meta file does not exist at the point of detection... yet the detection works, which is weird | 11:21 |
| paulsherwood | s/weird/spooky software magic/ | 11:22 |
| rdale | it would be nice to retrieve the meta files from the ybd cache, without needing to retrieve the complete artifacts but maybe deriving the cache keys needs the git repos for chunks to be retrieved locally | 11:23 |
| * paulsherwood turns his brain inside out attempting to parse that sentence | 11:24 | |
| rdale | i mean it would be nice to get meta data to see if chunks overlap, without needing to build anything, just retrieve the meta data from the cache | 11:26 |
| gtristan | not sure you need the gits... as all the sha1s are in the definitions | 11:27 |
| paulsherwood | rdale: ok, but it's only possible to create metadata after build :) | 11:27 |
| paulsherwood | ie files are the *results* of build | 11:27 |
| rdale | yes, but maybe i want to make queries about the contents of the cache that other people have built | 11:28 |
| paulsherwood | sure | 11:28 |
| pedroalvarez | this usecase sounds weird to me :) | 11:29 |
| rdale | i don't want to have to build every single artifact that has ever been built locally, to make reports about chunk overlap | 11:29 |
| paulsherwood | rdale: you don't need to, if they're already in the artifact server? | 11:29 |
| rdale | yes, but is there a way of just retrieving the meta data, and not the complete artifacts as the artifacts will take up a lot of disk space and take a long time to download | 11:30 |
| paulsherwood | not currently, no. i'll think about it - would be easy enough for kbas to offer that info | 11:30 |
| paulsherwood | but i agree with pedroalvarez - not sure what the usecase is in general | 11:31 |
| pedroalvarez | paulsherwood: regarding the procps-ng, could it be that procps-ng.meta hasn't been unpacked when you are unpacking bin/watch or bin/pidof? | 11:32 |
| pedroalvarez | (unpacked or moved to the final rootfs) | 11:32 |
| pedroalvarez | (or copied) | 11:33 |
| paulsherwood | ah, ok. yes. thanks! | 11:33 |
| paulsherwood | lots of patches stuck on +1, help wanted? :) | 11:36 |
| pedroalvarez | reviews are always welcome :) | 11:39 |
| * richard_maw will review things if highlighted and given a link | 11:40 | |
| * richard_maw doesn't have time to browse pending patches | 11:40 | |
| paulsherwood | i've done what i can - i don't consider myself competent for morph reviews | 11:40 |
| pedroalvarez | I would like to get an opinion on this one: https://gerrit.baserock.org/#/c/1885/ | 11:42 |
| * locallycompact can also review non-morph things | 11:44 | |
| richard_maw | pedroalvarez: ah, another attempt in the long line of trying to handle unicode in python | 11:53 |
| pedroalvarez | yes.. another | 11:54 |
| pedroalvarez | thanks! | 11:59 |
| locallycompact | paulsherwood, can I bring in pyfilesystem into ybd/definitions.py to make it more legible | 12:16 |
| paulsherwood | locallycompact: by all means | 12:22 |
| * paulsherwood doesn't know what pyfilesystem is for, though, and how it will help exactly | 12:36 | |
| locallycompact | paulsherwood, where you have with app.chdir(directory), for dirname, dirnames, filenames in os.walk('.'): //... ten lines of path.join frabbing | 12:48 |
| locallycompact | in pyfilesystem that can be | 12:48 |
| locallycompact | defs_fs=OSFS(directory) | 12:48 |
| locallycompact | all_morphs = list(defs_fs.walkfiles('/','*.morph')) | 12:48 |
| paulsherwood | ok cool! | 12:49 |
| paulsherwood | there are *five* examples of os.walk in ybd, while you're on :) | 12:50 |
| locallycompact | hah | 12:50 |
| paulsherwood | well, if you're adding a dependency, might as well make full use of it :) | 12:56 |
| locallycompact | :) | 12:57 |
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| jmacs | Has anyone here attempted to do dependency analysis by stracing the build process? | 13:09 |
| * paulsherwood has not | 13:10 | |
| persia | jmacs: You're looking to validate the set of runtime utilities required during build? | 13:11 |
| pedroalvarez | I think we gave it a thought only, as a useful way of extracting the dependencies needed for a chunk | 13:11 |
| jmacs | persia: Roughly, yes, although I'd say packages rather than utilities | 13:14 |
| rjek | jmacs: I know a guy once did automatic package creation from "make install" using an LD_PRELOAD, not sure if that also tracked things like what libraries were opened etc. | 13:15 |
| persia | jmacs: I've looked at build straces trying to find calls to utilities: I seem to recall having a fancy grep that told me what was being run. I've not tried to reassociate those utilities into file collections (e.g. packages) automatically. | 13:15 |
| jmacs | It can be done if you have a package manager that knows what files a package provides | 13:16 |
| rjek | Actually, that was for Slackware, which I don't think has a meaningful concept of dependencies. | 13:16 |
| jmacs | But I've only done a few quick experiments so far | 13:17 |
| paulsherwood | may be relevant - Ellexus.com has a product for tracing dependencies https://www.ellexus.com | 13:17 |
| ssam2 | rjek: `checkinstall` right? | 13:17 |
| persia | jmacs: In other efforts (not the same time I did the stracing), I've played with package manages that know what provides the file. The tricky bit is when there are choices or local collaborations (e.g. Debian's alternatives mechanism) | 13:18 |
| ssam2 | http://asic-linux.com.mx/~izto/checkinstall/ | 13:18 |
| ssam2 | I used to use that many years ago and found it to be good | 13:18 |
| * jmacs adds Ellexus to the list of things to research | 13:18 | |
| paulsherwood | jmacs: i think breeze is the name of their tool | 13:18 |
| rjek | ssam2: Yep, looks very similar to what I recall | 13:21 |
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| jjardon | Is it possible to build mesa without python2, but still depend on llvm which has a dependency on python2? | 17:11 |
| persia | You'd probably have to fuss with the ./configure script or pass options. | 17:11 |
| persia | Such a thing is theorectically possible, but in practice, most configuration scripts will scour a system to see what is installed, so if you are using python2 as a runtime dependency of llvm, mesa will likely try to compile against this. | 17:12 |
| pedroalvarez | i don't think llvm depends on python2, but it's expecting to find python and not python2 nor python3 | 17:13 |
| paulsherwood | you could write an anti-python2 chunk that obliterates it, for example :) | 17:13 |
| persia | If llvm is compatible with any python, one could simply have a /usr/bin/python symlink that pointed at python3 | 17:16 |
| pedroalvarez | hahaha, overlaping the files? | 17:16 |
| benbrown_ | name: anti-python | 17:16 |
| benbrown_ | description: summons locallycompact | 17:16 |
| pedroalvarez | persia: yes, but we were looking at making that symlink only for python2 | 17:16 |
| mwilliams_ct | benbrown_: I used to have a summoning ritual for rjek which involved claiming the superiority of the windows kernel | 17:17 |
| persia | pedroalvarez: Hrm? Why? | 17:17 |
| pedroalvarez | persia: well, I said "we", but in this case, I don't have a clue about why | 17:17 |
| pedroalvarez | there was some discussion about this | 17:18 |
| pedroalvarez | jjardon has all the context I believe | 17:18 |
| pedroalvarez | jjardon: maybe the solution is to patch upstream configure script to make it look for python3 aswell if present? | 17:19 |
| persia | I have no idea what problem was being solved by only having /usr/bin/python only point at python2, but I wouldn't trust that assertion, as there are plenty of systems for which it could not be true, making it fragile. | 17:20 |
| pedroalvarez | we have been discussing python2 and python3 for months now :( | 17:24 |
| jjardon | No, maybe my example was not good; I want to compile mesa against python2 but I do not want to have python2 present at all when I compile GNOME, for example | 17:24 |
| pedroalvarez | and that's possible if the python -> python3 symlink exists | 17:26 |
| pedroalvarez | hang on, you are talking about mesa, I was talking about llvm | 17:27 |
| pedroalvarez | but in your previous comment you said that the only problem was llvm, so I think we are still on the same topic | 17:27 |
| pedroalvarez | jjardon: build llvm with "--with-python" | 17:29 |
| jjardon | pedroalvarez: you are talking about specific strata, when my question is generic :) | 17:31 |
| pedroalvarez | I see | 17:33 |
| pedroalvarez | there was also discussion about transitive dependencies a while back | 17:33 |
| jjardon | How can I compile a stratum without the dependencies of other dependent strata; I guess that's not possible at all? | 17:34 |
| pedroalvarez | it is not | 17:34 |
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| paulsherwood | jjardon: i could make it possible, as an option in ybd? | 17:36 |
| paulsherwood | but lots of things would break | 17:37 |
| persia | Well, it depends. | 17:37 |
| paulsherwood | no, i mean, lots of current definitiosn would not build with that option | 17:38 |
| rdale | it wouldn't be very difficult to write a migration to flatten the stratum build dependencies - that's what ybd does anyway | 17:39 |
| persia | When you compile something, you must have all the runtime dependencies of that thing's build-dependencies installed. | 17:39 |
| persia | *but* the build dependencies of the dependencies can be not installed, if you like. | 17:39 |
| persia | In the case of building tools that build python libraries (e.g. with C bindings), one solution is to build *all* the python bindings, then use artifact splitting to have different names for the different results of the build, only putting the ones one wants as build dependencies of the next layer. | 17:39 |
| * paulsherwood is glad that this channel has brigher folks than him in it | 17:41 | |
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| rdale | you can only use artifact splitting for the final system, it isn't used when assembling build dependencies for strata at present | 17:43 |
| persia | I consider that a bug. We should fix it. | 17:43 |
| persia | Otherwise it becomes impossible to build all sorts of interesting stuff. | 17:43 |
| paulsherwood | fine - but does the splitting syntax actually support it? i thought its currently *stratum* splitting, for systems? | 17:44 |
| * persia headdesks | 17:45 | |
| paulsherwood | ? | 17:45 |
| paulsherwood | rdale: maybe you implemented this more generically? | 17:46 |
| rdale | no it implemented as it was intended to work for morph, but it wouldn't be too hard to change the build-depends of a stratum to have split stratum artifacts in the list, as well as lists of stratum paths. i don't like the syntax like this much: morph: strata/build-essential.morph | 17:48 |
| rdale | what is the 'morph:' bit before the strata path supposed to mean exactly? | 17:49 |
| paulsherwood | it's relative path | 17:49 |
| paulsherwood | (it is relative path) | 17:49 |
| rdale | it doesn't say 'path: ' thought, it says 'morph:' | 17:49 |
| ssam2 | it says 'morph' due to legacy | 17:50 |
| ssam2 | used to be a 'repo', 'ref', 'morph' triplet, back when strata could live anywhere | 17:50 |
| rdale | right, so it would be nice to fix that if we were allowing split stratum components | 17:50 |
| ssam2 | yes | 17:50 |
| persia | In my delusional perception, I'd like to not have to consider "stratum" when splitting. It is when I am composing a chunk|component that I know the sensible split semantics, and everything else should be built from the language so defined. | 17:50 |
| paulsherwood | there's lots of stuff to fix | 17:50 |
| paulsherwood | ssam2: how do we advance your spec idea? | 17:50 |
| ssam2 | keep pestering me to do it :-) | 17:51 |
| paulsherwood | i don't think locallycompact's spanner is enough to stop the wheel turning | 17:51 |
| paulsherwood | ssam2: consider yourself pestered | 17:51 |
| ssam2 | no, although i do mean to respond when I have time | 17:51 |
| ssam2 | feel free to contribute to or fork the github repo i set up, in the mean time | 17:52 |
| paulsherwood | ssam2: pls also review my fixes to definitions/schema :) | 17:52 |
| ssam2 | +1 | 17:52 |
| paulsherwood | ssam2: i sent a pr | 17:52 |
| paulsherwood | adding the lost history :) | 17:52 |
| ssam2 | I saw. I might have to rebase on top of it rather than merge it though, for it to make sense | 17:53 |
| ssam2 | while we're here, I prefer the name 'spec' to 'schema' | 17:53 |
| ssam2 | possibly because 'schema' seems like it already has a more specific meaning, in computer science at least | 17:53 |
| paulsherwood | ok by me | 17:54 |
| rdale | is 'spec' different from 'specification' ? | 17:54 |
| ssam2 | I think what we have compares more with https://github.com/appc/spec, for example | 17:54 |
| paulsherwood | it's shorter | 17:54 |
| rdale | :) | 17:54 |
| ssam2 | rdale: same thing but shorter, in my opinion | 17:54 |
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| rdale | well i suppose i'm boring but i find specification more readable | 17:54 |
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| paulsherwood | i'm +1 on either | 17:55 |
| * paulsherwood wishes, incidentally, that there was a video of JPohlmann's 'Don't fear the rebase' talk | 17:56 | |
| locallycompact | I'm failing to understand the implementation of splitting in ybd | 17:57 |
| locallycompact | What is the function of mark_used_path | 17:57 |
| paulsherwood | rdale: ^^ | 17:57 |
| rdale | so that items don't appear twice in the file list i think - that was from nowsters original code | 17:58 |
| locallycompact | It seems very roundabout | 17:59 |
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| paulsherwood | amazing... docker won't send me password reset emails, but *does* send me invites to their new Docker Datacenter (DDC) gubbins | 18:03 |
| locallycompact | :) | 18:15 |
| paulsherwood | i'd tweet it, but what's the use :) | 18:16 |
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| jjardon | paulsherwood that would be very helpful for me :) | 22:40 |
| jjardon | I see persia concern but I know python is only a build dependency of mesa, so I do not need it at all when building the gnome stratum, for example | 22:42 |
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