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| petefoth | The 'CIAT' page on the wiki has a link to http://ciat.baserock.org/#/ which is not currently responding. (apologies of this is a;lready known) | 07:34 |
|---|---|---|
| SotK | petefoth: I believe ciat.baserock.org was turned off a couple of weeks ago since it was running on an expensive aws box | 07:47 |
| petefoth | SotK: that would explain it :) I shan't mess with the wik page - I'll leave that to the discretion of toscalix who added the links | 07:53 |
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| pedroalvarez | morning all | 09:08 |
| tiagogomes_ | morning | 09:11 |
| pedroalvarez | interesting proposal in baserock-dev | 09:12 |
| tiagogomes_ | about? (still haven't catch up with email) | 09:13 |
| petefoth | 'Axing the Stratum - Enter Runtime Dependencies and Build Flavors' | 09:15 |
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| pedroalvarez | I better don't spoil it :) | 09:16 |
| pedroalvarez | it is long, but interesting | 09:16 |
| * petefoth is savihg it for lunchtime reading | 09:19 | |
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| pedroalvarez | I had some time to play with docker this weekend, and I think it may be interesting for others, and for the project itself | 11:14 |
| pedroalvarez | I wrote something down, and I'm planning to add it to the wiki: http://paste.baserock.org/lijejeloka | 11:15 |
| ssam2 | it's already there :-) http://wiki.baserock.org/guides/docker/ | 11:19 |
| ssam2 | but quite out of date | 11:20 |
| pedroalvarez | yes, I took that information as base | 11:23 |
| pedroalvarez | but I think that developing in your system, without entering in the container with an interactive session, was interesting | 11:23 |
| ssam2 | ah, I see | 11:30 |
| pedroalvarez | I also ran morph tests, with no failures :) | 11:30 |
| ssam2 | nice! | 11:30 |
| ssam2 | yeah, it's nice to have build-as-an-appliace | 11:31 |
| ssam2 | *appliance | 11:31 |
| ssam2 | it might be more conventional to provide a HTTP API for building, instead of requiring the user to run a shell command | 11:31 |
| ssam2 | so, you run the container, send a HTTP request, it replies with a URL to an image | 11:32 |
| pedroalvarez | that will be a really slow answer then | 11:32 |
| ssam2 | sure. it needs to be a bit more complex :-) | 11:32 |
| ssam2 | but it would be great to be able to provide baserock-builds-as-a-service | 11:32 |
| pedroalvarez | yes, my usecase was to make baserock tooling available to anyone that doesn't want to mess up with his system, and doesn't want to create VM's | 11:33 |
| pedroalvarez | baserock-chroot is nice too | 11:33 |
| ssam2 | hmm.. yeah I forget that we still recommend everyone to make a VM | 11:33 |
| ssam2 | http://wiki.baserock.org/quick-start/ probably puts quite a lot of people off | 11:33 |
| ssam2 | i certainly wouldn't be arsed with it if I was wondering what Baserock was | 11:34 |
| pedroalvarez | docker approach sounds simpler if you know what docker is, and if we hide this long docker call in a script.. this could be nice | 11:34 |
| pedroalvarez | also, if we manage to create a docker image with only the dependencies needed, the docker image should be really small | 11:35 |
| ssam2 | docker also works on OS X I believe | 11:36 |
| ssam2 | with this hacky boot2docker thing | 11:36 |
| ssam2 | wait, that's not it at all | 11:37 |
| ssam2 | docker-machine is the thing you use. Which is basically a VM, but automated | 11:37 |
| ssam2 | as in, the setup of itis automated | 11:38 |
| ssam2 | *it is | 11:38 |
| pedroalvarez | and in windows! | 11:38 |
| ssam2 | in windows too? awesome | 11:39 |
| pedroalvarez | but yes, is a VM | 11:39 |
| ssam2 | if it works well, i'd like to replace the current quick-start instructions with suggesting folk use Docker, then | 11:39 |
| ssam2 | would be simpler both for us and for users | 11:39 |
| pedroalvarez | i might be able to investigate windows use-case | 11:42 |
| pedroalvarez | Looks like docker-machines automates the creation of VM's... I'm not sure it will be any easier to understand that you need to install docker-machine, virtualbox, and then get a baserock docker image | 11:52 |
| pedroalvarez | hm... | 11:53 |
| pedroalvarez | I prefer to give up with windows users :P | 11:53 |
| ssam2 | we can just point them to : https://docs.docker.com/installation/windows/ | 11:57 |
| ssam2 | or whatever is the up-to-date doc | 11:57 |
| pedroalvarez | true | 11:57 |
| straycat | hrm | 13:18 |
| straycat | so the other day i found i can no longer git clone over https in baserock, it looks as though the certdata2pem script which is used by the ca-certificates chunk to install a bunch of certificates requires python2, but we now have python3 in core. | 13:20 |
| richard_maw | and it's overriding the /usr/bin/python symlink? | 13:21 |
| straycat | it's got #!/usr/bin/python at the top yes? | 13:22 |
| straycat | oh i see your question, iirc yes if there's no python2 installation then python3 will provide /usr/bin/python | 13:23 |
| * richard_maw would consider that a bug | 13:23 | |
| richard_maw | but… python3 depends on core, which contains python2 | 13:24 |
| straycat | no core now contains python3? | 13:24 |
| * richard_maw forgot to reset when he updated master | 13:24 | |
| straycat | so i'm just not sure how best to go about fixing this, other than basically putting python2 back into core... | 13:25 |
| straycat | since things in core want git, which wants curl, which wants ca-certs | 13:25 |
| richard_maw | oh, someone recently swapped out which python was installed by default | 13:26 |
| straycat | yes | 13:26 |
| persia | Can we do something with six or nine to work around the problem? | 13:26 |
| * persia would think nine was created specifically for this sort of thing | 13:27 | |
| * richard_maw still thinks having /usr/bin/python → python3 is a bug | 13:27 | |
| persia | richard_maw: Why? Some people want systems with no python2 | 13:28 |
| richard_maw | aye, but AFAICT everyone assumes that /usr/bin/python is python2, not python3, at which point I would prefer the more obvious error that the interpreter is missing, than it try to parse it as python3 | 13:29 |
| persia | I know of contrary assumers, but I can see your argument, and agree that it is not an uncommon one. | 13:30 |
| persia | That said, I do think nine solves most of the problems with /usr/bin/python being python3 | 13:30 |
| persia | But that is because I'm misinformed. | 13:31 |
| SotK | related to this: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/ | 13:31 |
| persia | It is *six* that solves this problem. nine solves the other problem (that of assuming /usr/bin/python is python3, and running on a python2 system) | 13:31 |
| straycat | if the solution is going to be to patch that file maybe we can just run 2to3 on it? | 13:35 |
| persia | Ask upstream what sort of patch they like best. | 13:36 |
| persia | So if we do that one, they might adopt it, and then we don't have to redo things later. | 13:36 |
| straycat | "for the time being, all distributions should ensure that python refers to the same target as python2 . " (from SotK's link) | 13:37 |
| straycat | so probably we should also ensure that python points to python2 | 13:37 |
| persia | Except Arch doesn't already (also from SotK's link), so only dual-source compatible python should use /usr/bin/python: python2-only source should use /usr/bin/python2 | 13:37 |
| persia | And at least some of the folk active in Baserock are known to use Arch, so we are unlikely to have consensus within our community, mirroring global opinion nicely. | 13:38 |
| straycat | my interpretation of that pep is that arch is broken, hence the creation of the pep, but ok | 13:39 |
| SotK | straycat: that was how I interpreted it too | 13:39 |
| radiofree | is arch linux now the arbiter in how gnu/linux distributions should be laid out? | 13:40 |
| persia | I interpret the rationale for the PEP that Arch was considered broken. I interpret the text of the PEP as a set of advisories that allow people to ignore whether Arch is broken. | 13:40 |
| * richard_maw asserts that since python3 is not a superset of python2 and python2 was the first to lay claim to the name /usr/bin/python, that /usr/bin/python can only be python2 | 13:40 | |
| persia | And I rather like the compromise of python3-only using /usr/bin/python3, python2-only using /usr/bin/python2, and dual-interpretable using /usr/bin/python | 13:41 |
| straycat | Okay, in any case I'll go play around with 2to3 and see if I can get our ca-certs back >.> | 13:42 |
| * SotK likes that compromise too | 13:42 | |
| * richard_maw dislikes the compromise because it breaks existing programs | 13:42 | |
| straycat | yeah, there is that | 13:42 |
| persia | straycat: The easy fix is to add the character "2" to the file. | 13:42 |
| straycat | prior to python3 you could safely assume that python meant python2 | 13:42 |
| straycat | persia, no because python2 is not in core | 13:43 |
| persia | richard_maw: Yes, but given the agenda of the interpreter folk to get other authors to move to the new interpreter, it is least bad. | 13:43 |
| persia | straycat: Ah, hrm. Yes. Maybe ask upstream then, as all other solutions are uglier. | 13:43 |
| * straycat nods | 13:43 | |
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| pedroalvarez | this fix needs could do with more eyes on it: https://gerrit.baserock.org/#/c/1348/ | 15:10 |
| pedroalvarez | s/needs// | 15:10 |
| straycat | persia, seems the upstream already tried to move to python3 but then reverted it https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=789753 | 15:11 |
| pedroalvarez | looks like it's incomplete | 15:13 |
| persia | straycat: Excellent: now we know their preferred approach (and some of the pitfalls) | 15:14 |
| pedroalvarez | I have been wondering if anyone will miss gerrit's old change screen whenever we upgrade | 15:19 |
| ssam2 | no luck flashing the device so far | 15:23 |
| ssam2 | oops, wrong channel | 15:23 |
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| jjardon | pedroalvarez: are we upgrading gerrit? yes! avatars! | 15:53 |
| pedroalvarez | hah | 15:54 |
| pedroalvarez | I want to | 15:54 |
| persia | Can we haz 2.11? | 15:54 |
| persia | And Storyboard upgrade too? | 15:54 |
| pedroalvarez | 2.11.3 | 15:54 |
| pedroalvarez | but as I said, they remove the old change screen | 15:54 |
| persia | That even has the useful bugfix :) | 15:54 |
| pedroalvarez | which is? | 15:54 |
| persia | That is why we have gertty | 15:54 |
| pedroalvarez | oh, lovely | 15:55 |
| persia | I think it was https://code.google.com/p/gerrit/issues/detail?id=3424 | 15:55 |
| pedroalvarez | I want to: create a system with latest gerrit, import our database backup, migrate the database, and validate the result | 15:56 |
| pedroalvarez | persia: I think I've never experienced that error | 15:57 |
| persia | pedroalvarez: It only happens when you upgrade a gerrit with lots of large repos. | 15:59 |
| persia | (or at least, that is what I heard) | 15:59 |
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| pedroalvarez | Continue thinking about upgrading gerrit, I just realised that merging master of definitions on infrastructure.git will be a pain | 17:02 |
| pedroalvarez | most of the systems will be broken, I'm sure | 17:02 |
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| ssam2 | i would update to the last release, rather than master | 17:13 |
| ssam2 | but yeah, lots of stratum rearrangement which leads to broken systems downstream due to lack of runtime deps ... | 17:13 |
| jjardon | Hi, What is the baserock way to add support to new ARM boards? is there a generic arm rootfs offered somewhere? | 17:14 |
| radiofree | there used to be | 17:14 |
| pedroalvarez | first of all you need the board :) | 17:16 |
| pedroalvarez | is this a supported architecture? | 17:16 |
| radiofree | any armv7 board is "supported architecture" | 17:16 |
| rjek | Any? :) | 17:16 |
| radiofree | most! | 17:17 |
| rjek | ARMv7-A | 17:17 |
| * rjek <- pedant | 17:17 | |
| radiofree | we can massively aid the process of adding additional supported architectures if we provide a rootfs | 17:17 |
| pedroalvarez | my question was mainly if this was an armv7 board | 17:17 |
| rjek | jjardon: What CPU/SoC is on the board in question? | 17:17 |
| rjek | I think the baseline we assume is ARMv7-A with VFPv3-D16 | 17:18 |
| pedroalvarez | this gerrit upgrade is already giving me a headache | 17:19 |
| jjardon | rjek: ifc6410: Snapdragon 600 APQ8064 | 17:20 |
| pedroalvarez | heh, I wanted to avoid updating infrastructure.git fork, but looks like their definitions are in version: 1 | 17:22 |
| rjek | Oh, old | 17:22 |
| radiofree | tiagogomes_: the rootfs is tested in the same way as the jetson one | 17:23 |
| rjek | jjardon: ARMv7-A, VFPv4 | 17:23 |
| rjek | jjardon: Will probably work | 17:23 |
| radiofree | it's essentially a jeston image without the bsp | 17:23 |
| rjek | I cna't find out if it's D16 or D32, but either way I think we target the lesser | 17:23 |
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| jjardon | rjek: pedroalvarez so is there a rootfs somewhere to start working on this? or is there any "baserock way" Im not aware of? | 17:28 |
| rjek | jjardon: Unpack one of the images on http://download.baserock.org/baserock/ ? | 17:29 |
| * rjek doesn't actually know the answer | 17:29 | |
| radiofree | i download a jetson image, mount it, copy out the rootfs (from /systems/factory/run), then boot that sd card | 17:29 |
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| radiofree | which isn't as easy as "extract this rootfs to an sdcard" | 17:29 |
| rjek | Yeah, a .tar.gz of the rootfses for both x86-64 and armv7l would be nice | 17:30 |
| rjek | So you can chroot into them easily, say | 17:30 |
| radiofree | yes, a chroot is nice for the aarch64 stuff we have | 17:31 |
| rjek | With qemu-user, you can chroot into ARM chroots on x86, which can be very handy | 17:32 |
| radiofree | i wouldn't want to use that to build though | 17:32 |
| rjek | No, but it's handy for quick investigations | 17:32 |
| radiofree | and running passwd | 17:33 |
| rjek | :) | 17:33 |
| rjek | radiofree: passwd can be given the path to passwd/shadow to modify, IIRC | 17:33 |
| rjek | -R | 17:33 |
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| jjardon | rjek, radiofree; ok, thanks | 17:50 |
| radiofree | basically the current situation is less than ideal | 17:51 |
| ssam2 | completely agree, the fact that releases still take someone a day to do also sucks | 17:57 |
| ssam2 | adding an arm rootfs to the mix wouldn't make the release process significantly worse | 17:58 |
| rjek | When was the last release made, OOI? | 17:58 |
| radiofree | shouldn't add anything to the build time either? | 17:58 |
| radiofree | it's just the jetson image without a bsp | 17:58 |
| rjek | Nod | 17:58 |
| rjek | Could probably be done on download.baserock.org itself to save uploading 400MB twice | 17:58 |
| radiofree | yes it would be trivial to write a script to do it from a jetson.img | 17:59 |
| rjek | Or simply put an img-to-tar.sh script on download.baserock.org for people to use | 18:00 |
| radiofree | that's still more of a ballache than just providing a rootfs | 18:01 |
| radiofree | you couldn't do it in windows for example | 18:02 |
| rjek | Is a tar.gz much use on Windows? | 18:02 |
| rjek | You won't be able to extract it to anything useful | 18:02 |
| radiofree | 7zip can open it | 18:02 |
| radiofree | oh yeah | 18:02 |
| radiofree | that | 18:02 |
| rjek | Yeah, but not extract it losslessly | 18:02 |
| rjek | No dev nodes or hardlinks | 18:02 |
| radiofree | also extracting it to a non-vfat sd card | 18:03 |
| * rjek nods | 18:03 | |
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| ssam2 | rjek: last full release was 15.34 i think -- week 34 2015 | 18:07 |
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| ssam2 | and yes, build time would be the same adding a chroot, just more moving parts to remember about | 18:08 |
| ssam2 | s/chroot/rootfs/ | 18:08 |
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| jjardon | about the rootfs discussion, Ive sent this in case wants to take a look: https://gerrit.baserock.org/#/q/status:open+project:baserock/baserock/definitions+branch:master+topic:build-system-armv7lhf-chroot | 18:18 |
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| persia | Regarding rootfs: in my imagination, we have a simple way to derive a system with an alternate kernel, and a simple way to include a blob, such that instead of using a rootfs with other tools, a developer simply grabs the blob kernel, and generates a system using Baserock. | 21:28 |
| persia | When that works, the developer then tries with some known hah of some kernel tree, and slowly moves towards complete alignment with upstream. | 21:29 |
| persia | s/hah/hash/ | 21:30 |
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