IRC logs for #baserock for Monday, 2015-06-29

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jonathanmawDoes the change in definitions to define a version number mean that morph is backwards-compatible?09:40
paulsherwoodthere's a whole load of hidden complexity in that question09:40
jonathanmawI'm looking at the GENIVI Demo Platform branch (http://git.baserock.org/cgi-bin/cgit.cgi/baserock/baserock/definitions.git/tree/?h=baserock/james/genivi-demo-platform-0.1-rebase) and wondering what version of morph to recommend09:40
paulsherwoodi think we always recommend latest morph?09:41
paulsherwoodor ybd :)09:41
jonathanmawWould using a later version of morph result in cache-key misses?09:41
ssam2jonathanmaw: not unless the cache key calculation algorithm changes, which is rare09:42
ssam2i've been trying to get us to a point where the latest release of the 'build' reference system on download.baserock.org can always build the commits between the latest release tag of definitions.git and master of definitions.git09:43
persiassam2: So version foo can always build version foo+1 ?09:44
ssam2yes09:44
ssam2jonathanmaw: so I would recommend using whatever is the latest released version of the 'build' reference system at the time of writing09:45
ssam2which is 15.2509:45
paulsherwoodas i described on http://wiki.baserock.org/back-and-forth/ this  design is complex and a bit fragile i think.09:45
ssam2however, it does exist :)09:45
ssam2jonathanmaw: later releases may remove support for the version of definitions used in that branch. Which just means that if you update the branch from master of definitions.git you may need to update the version of the 'build' system recommended in the instructions, and vice versa09:46
ssam2later releases of the 'build' reference system, that is09:47
paulsherwoodssam2: i'm confused by 'however, it does exist :)' ?09:48
ssam2it's a response to your criticism of the current design of the definitions versioning. I'm saying that although it is indeed complex and fragile, i don't know of a better approach we can use right now for making incompatible changes in a predictable way09:49
ssam2i think i'm going to be looking at this in more detail this week, and will try to summarise all of the previous discussion on the mailing list and collect ideas for fixing it09:49
paulsherwoodssam2: i really didn't mean it to be taken as criticism of the design. this is a very hard problem, and i think you've done a lot of deep thinking to get this far09:54
paulsherwoodi just want the moon on a stick, as you know :)09:55
paulsherwoodmy current *guess* is that we'll need to simplify the problem or increase constraints to achieve any improvement versus what you've already proposed. but i've been wrong before09:56
radiofreepaulsherwood: if your laptop can build the ci cluster in ~4.5 hours i think we should make your laptop the ci system10:50
rjekhaha10:50
pedroalvarezregarding CI, have anyone notice the new feature of https://mason-x86-64.baserock.org/?10:51
pedroalvarezFeel free to vote it in: https://gerrit.baserock.org/#/c/924/ :)10:52
rjek:)10:52
radiofreepedroalvarez: that is lovely, but it doesn't show the current ref for me10:54
radiofreeand probably should be "In Progress"10:54
pedroalvarezthis is because I did the minimal work to make this happen. Make it better would be more and more code10:55
pedroalvarezs/Make/Making/10:55
pedroalvarezthe script that generates this html can't know the ref, before calling the script that does the build, and it can't wait for it to finish for obvious reasons10:56
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paulsherwoodradiofree: :)11:09
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tiagogomes_Anyone looked into using monit  (https://mmonit.com/monit/) in the Trove and Mason? It looks a useful tool. The website also looks nice, which makes me restate that wiki.baserock.org looks bad13:12
Kinnisonthe monit website is an evil scrollsite13:12
* Kinnison gives up13:12
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ssam2yeah, i know i'm in the minority, but if a website says 'Javascript on, please!' then i already hate them13:45
* richard_maw is with ssam2 there13:46
rjek+113:48
nowsterme too13:48
SotKis it the requirement of Javascript that is disliked, or the phrasing of the message which informs about the requirement that is the issue13:49
SotK?13:49
KinnisonBoth13:50
* SotK notices storyboard with Javascript disabled is an interesting experience13:50
KinnisonStoryboard is a web-app not a website13:50
ssam2the design of storyboard is pretty annoying, though, although I think I can see why they implemented it the way they did (allows for live-updates without a refresh)13:52
persiaThe other reason is to have a REST service that is consumable in other ways.13:53
persiaFor example, one can have a kanban backed by storyboard in parallel to a bug tracker without that much adjustment to the core data.13:54
persiaBut perhaps this is off-topic for this channel :)13:54
ssam2i can implement a REST service without requiring the clients to all run arbitrary Javascript code13:54
ssam2when I say the 'design of storyboard', I only mean the design of the web interface13:55
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persiaI didn't think it was arbitrary code: I thought it was the storyboard UI code.13:56
persiaI suppose it is arbitrary, if you consider the storyboard developers the arbiters.13:57
persiaBut most of the REST-consuming web interfaces that aren't pure javascript that I've seen require another layer of servers to process the UI-to-API translation.13:57
petefothpossibly arbitrary in the sense of 'not having been (noticeably) subject to UI design'13:57
SotKpetefoth, others: I'd be interested to hear which parts cause the most pain, though perhaps #baserock isn't the best place for that13:59
petefothSotK: I'll pm or email with some issue I raised against a version that was run in another place14:00
SotKpetefoth: thanks!14:00
ssam2persia: it's abitrary in the sense that I don't have time to read through it and check what it does14:04
perrylpaulsherwood: is the artifact cache location for ybd only accessible from ybd/app.py now?14:04
jonathanmawHi Baserockers, I am writing instructions for using the Baserock GENIVI Demo Platform, and one part of that is providing a ready-made binary image that can just be flashed and run, and ran into the question of where to host it.14:06
jonathanmawCan I host it on download.baserock.org?14:06
ssam2makes sense to host it on download.baserock.org to me14:08
ssam2download.baserock.org is actually hosted on a codethink-owned server still, so you already have access too :)14:08
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paulsherwoodperryl: i don't understand your question? at the moment there's no server for ybd, unless you've created one? i'd like to establish one soonish, if possible as per my email today: http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/pipermail/baserock-dev-baserock.org/2015-June/013137.html14:51
paulsherwoodperryl: i used to have a local poc server, but removed it for clarity14:51
perrylpaulsherwood: just where the cached artifacts are stored :) i checked the git history for ybd.conf where it was set before but now it looks to be generated in app.py14:52
paulsherwoodperryl: ah yes, that was a change from jjardon to try to simplify things. set one directory in ybd.conf and everything sits under there14:53
paulsherwoodssam2 had an issue where things broke if directories were on different mounts. this makes that impossible now iiuc14:53
perrylahh, makes sense to simplify, i'll see if it's possible to incorporate that in my script14:53
paulsherwoodperryl: ok, understood. if you have an existing set of gits and artifacts, you could mv them to save re-creating from scratch14:54
paulsherwoodperryl: so the setting in ybd.conf is 'base' - i hope that makes sense14:55
perryli don#'t have any stored artifacts at present :( i was testing the script after making a few additions and noticed it failing to parse the cached artifact files14:56
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paulsherwoodrjek: a propos of nothing, is there any guidance anywhere on how to make webuis useful for folks who are colourblind?16:23
rjekpaulsherwood: Don't rely on colour, use symbols :)16:23
rjekTrello does this really well, btw16:23
rjekThere is no "single solution" colour palette, as people's colour blindness differs from person to person16:24
paulsherwoodrjek: thanks!16:24
rjekOr at minimum make sure information is available in a medium other than colour16:24
rjekpaulsherwood: Have you seen how Trello does it, btw?  It uses different combinations of cross-hatching and colour16:24
paulsherwoodrjek: noted, thanks16:25
CTtpollardI've had friends find Colour Enhancer add-on from Google with Chrome helpful16:26
CTtpollard*Color16:26
rjekCTtpollard: You were right before, it is the add-on that is wrong >:)16:29
CTtpollardrjek: agreed!16:29
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rjekNetSurf hasn't had a bug report about our variable name spelling in ages, but somebody did recently file a bug saying we'd typoed "Disc cache"16:30
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